Guns As A " God-given Right"

[superblue]

Can someone explain this to me? I just don't see how guns are an inherent right as human beings. Life, education, proper medical care, these are human rights. How is shaped metal that shoots shaped metal a human right? I don't understand this line of thinking, and I've been led to believe that the only reason people say it is is because 'Murica. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I can't promise you'll change my opinion, but I am genuinely curious as to how this logic works.

 

 

When did an education and proper medical care become " human rights ", that would be like saying well everyone has the human right to drive a car.

 

If anything we have the human right to live in peace and freedom from a tyrannical government or a government that wont allow us to worship in peace.  This debate you brought up is nothing new it is constantly debated in the media , and more over it is just an attempt to stomp out the 2nd amendment .

 

And that is the underlying issue, it isn't about human rights that you are bringing up, it is gun control, guns in general, /   Guns are not a  " human right " .

 

Our human rights came from Christ / God,  go look through scripture  or the ten commandments and good luck trying to thread a weak analogy on how healthcare, and education , gun control, and all these other mindless, arguementive debates are tied into those teachings from Moses to Christ.  Better yet try explaining all the violence out of the old testament. Which fyi was done with out a gun.

 

If you want to start a thread on the American Constitution and Bill of Rights than just do it, but don't lump it into an imaginary issue of " human rights ".  Human rights issues are for these third world hell holes that are lawless and being run by corrupt governments. That don't feed their people and worse off usually end up stealing their food, run them from their homes, allow them no place to worship , can't vote, no running water, no nothing. Those are human rights issues. not  what you are getting at.

[PhuturePriest]

When did an education and proper medical care become " human rights ", that would be like saying well everyone has the human right to drive a car.

 

If anything we have the human right to live in peace and freedom from a tyrannical government or a government that wont allow us to worship in peace.  This debate you brought up is nothing new it is constantly debated in the media , and more over it is just an attempt to stomp out the 2nd amendment .

 

And that is the underlying issue, it isn't about human rights that you are bringing up, it is gun control, guns in general, /   Guns are not a  " human right " .

 

Our human rights came from Christ / God,  go look through scripture  or the ten commandments and good luck trying to thread a weak analogy on how healthcare, and education , gun control, and all these other mindless, arguementive debates are tied into those teachings from Moses to Christ.  Better yet try explaining all the violence out of the old testament. Which fyi was done with out a gun.

 

If you want to start a thread on the American Constitution and Bill of Rights than just do it, but don't lump it into an imaginary issue of " human rights ".  Human rights issues are for these third world hell holes that are lawless and being run by corrupt governments. That don't feed their people and worse off usually end up stealing their food, run them from their homes, allow them no place to worship , can't vote, no running water, no nothing. Those are human rights issues. not  what you are getting at.

 

We should go on a date. Does coffee tomorrow at noon sound good?

[superblue]

We should go on a date. Does coffee tomorrow at noon sound good?

 

 

I'd of passed on the thread had I taken the time to see it has been shot to hell and back already, but good grief ya gota expect people to disagree with you when you created the hot topic to begin with, no need to get your feelings hurt over something you started.

[PhuturePriest]

I'd of passed on the thread had I taken the time to see it has been shot to hell and back already, but good grief ya gota expect people to disagree with you when you created the hot topic to begin with, no need to get your feelings hurt over something you started.

 

My feelings aren't hurt. Quite the opposite, actually. How can I be hurt when I'm so hot for someone?

[Winchester]

Your wife being executed because you cut a shotgun barrel too short: No longer a human rights issue.

[Winchester]

Apparently, on a desert island, one would not have the right to carry a firearm. One would have to create a government so it could grant that right. Absent a government, a gun is one of the special items other people may commit violence against you for merely possessing.

 

That's an interesting theory.

[Socrates]

I had expected better from you. Perhaps my expectations were misplaced.

Deists of all sorts and atheists use logic and reasoning to deduct and infer principles. You simply are claiming an ultimate authority because you were raised and live in a Judea-Christian culture and have placed your faith in God as the ultimate authority. You still have to use reason and logic to defend your principles. That've are no daily objective manifestations if God duels that establishes your cultural understanding of God as supreme.

You can use rational reasoning to defend your position, and do so to establish your position as the most reasonable, but you do not possess any objective evidence that could establish the superiority of your position.

You present basic logical fallacies as faults in others perspectives.

 

 

Sorry to disappoint.

 

I believe that there is an enduring moral order which is above and beyond changeable human majority opinion - that certain things are always absolutely right or wrong whether the majority of people in a given time or place agrees or not.

 

As an atheist, obviously, you may disagree with that, but I haven't said anything fallacious.

 

 

 

And what's this?  

"That've are no daily objective manifestations if God duels that establishes your cultural understanding of God as supreme."

 

Speak English.

[Socrates]

Does that strike you as being at all misanthropic?

 

Apparently in Benedictus's country people are a lot dumber than Americans.

[Socrates]

When did an education and proper medical care become " human rights ", that would be like saying well everyone has the human right to drive a car.

 

If anything we have the human right to live in peace and freedom from a tyrannical government or a government that wont allow us to worship in peace.  This debate you brought up is nothing new it is constantly debated in the media , and more over it is just an attempt to stomp out the 2nd amendment .

 

And that is the underlying issue, it isn't about human rights that you are bringing up, it is gun control, guns in general, /   Guns are not a  " human right " .

 

Our human rights came from Christ / God,  go look through scripture  or the ten commandments and good luck trying to thread a weak analogy on how healthcare, and education , gun control, and all these other mindless, arguementive debates are tied into those teachings from Moses to Christ.  Better yet try explaining all the violence out of the old testament. Which fyi was done with out a gun.

 

If you want to start a thread on the American Constitution and Bill of Rights than just do it, but don't lump it into an imaginary issue of " human rights ".  Human rights issues are for these third world hell holes that are lawless and being run by corrupt governments. That don't feed their people and worse off usually end up stealing their food, run them from their homes, allow them no place to worship , can't vote, no running water, no nothing. Those are human rights issues. not  what you are getting at.

 

As I pointed out near the beginning of this thread, the legal right to own and bear arms is closely tied to the natural right to defend ones life, so I don't see it as a completely frivolous issue.

 

Also, issue of human rights is not confined only to "third world hellholes."  I don't think we need to wait for a government to start starving its citizens or throwing political dissidents in gulags before we start being concerned about rights.  There are many gradations on the slippery slope into tyranny.

[Winchester]

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/veterans-affairs-police-caused-fatal-stroke-beating-patient-tired-waiting/

[Anomaly]

Sorry to disappoint.

I believe that there is an enduring moral order which is above and beyond changeable human majority opinion - that certain things are always absolutely right or wrong whether the majority of people in a given time or place agrees or not.

As an atheist, obviously, you may disagree with that, but I haven't said anything fallacious.



And what's this?
"That've are no daily objective manifestations if God duels that establishes your cultural understanding of God as supreme."

Speak English.

I'll save a response on the fallacious argument til later.

I respond on a phone which adds physical and autocorrect challenges to my inherent mental insufficiencies.

Generally, I was asking for objective and tangible proof or evidence that your God exists and has provided the irrefutable argument for your claim of Absolute Truth. You are in no different position than the atheist. Both must use reason and logic to philosophise on their principles of morality.

Lumping all atheists together is as accurate as lumping all theists together when discussing moral principles. My response could just as validly claim that you diests base your moral principles on some imagined entity that speaks to you. How would you differ from anyone experiencing a hallucination?

[superblue]

As I pointed out near the beginning of this thread, the legal right to own and bear arms is closely tied to the natural right to defend ones life, so I don't see it as a completely frivolous issue.

 

Also, issue of human rights is not confined only to "third world hellholes."  I don't think we need to wait for a government to start starving its citizens or throwing political dissidents in gulags before we start being concerned about rights.  There are many gradations on the slippery slope into tyranny.

 

no the issue is not frivolous, but it originated under the concept of being a " human rights issue " and that is a non debate, it would be like asking does everyone has the right to breath; of course people have a natural right to defend ones life even under a constitutional right of bearing arms to do so. But the issue I took is guising the debate under the topic of " human rights ".

 

As to the issue of human rights not being confined to third world hellholes, I don't see how it isn't,  we don't need to wait for a government as you have stated but the thing is people are more likely than not to let it happen for a number of reasons.  So even labeling this as a " God given right " to do so, is frivolous as well, why wouldn't God want us to protect the life He gave us ? Or when Christ said to turn the other cheek was he literally meaning to just let people walk over us and even kill us if they chose to do so. An I doubt that is the case.  Or should we be discussing the commandment Thou shall not kill, and ask what was the original Hebrew / Aramaic or what ever language the ten commandments were originally written in, the actual translation of those commandments versus the English translation . Exactly who , what, and why are we not supposed to kill, and are their exceptions to that rule.

[Winchester]

Apparently, the commandment to not kill doesn't apply to the government, who may kill in the name of preventing people from owning stuff some other people don't want them to own.

[superblue]

Apparently, the commandment to not kill doesn't apply to the government, who may kill in the name of preventing people from owning stuff some other people don't want them to own.

 

 

Ha, good point, should be like a cliff note after the Ten Commandments reading ( does not apply to governments or their leaders )

[Winchester]

If they're willing to maim babies over a plant, just imagine what they'll do over a gun. http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/swat-throws-grenade-in-playpen/