Traditional Priestly Vocation--aging Out?

[bardegaulois]

Greetings, and thanks for reading.

This evening, I received a very disappointing letter from the ICKSP, thanking me for my inquiry regarding beginning priestly formation with them, but informing me that they do not accept applicants for the priesthood over the age of 30 (I am 34). However, they did ask me if I might consider becoming a "clerical oblate" with them. I'll write them and ask for more information, as I'm not quite sure what this is; I'm presuming that it's something like a coadjutor brother. As this is a society of secular priests, I'm not even sure if their oblates are vowed or not. When I find out, I'll go over it with my spiritual director.

My interest in the priesthood was strongly renewed toward the end of last year. There were a number of factors for this, but I'll leave it with the statement that it became evident to me that I make a rather terrible secular layman. I've gone through the motions for many years, but my heart has never quite been in it. It feels, for lack of a better term, mercenary, even somewhat cheap. I did take part a little in "discernment culture" in my 20s, but just found myself frustrated by it quite a bit. It wasn't until I found a real spiritual home, so to speak, in a parish that celebrates the Traditional Latin Mass that my frustration with the Church abated. Now, the attitude and ethos that a reverent liturgy inculcates has become necessary for me, and in my research into societies and orders the nature of the liturgy they celebrate is a decisive factor. My first letter was to the ICKSP, as everything I've seen and read of them really aroused my interest; we seemed, for lack of a better term, like kindred spirits.

As I said, I'll ask for more information regarding this "clerical oblate" status, but my initial reaction is not one of enthusiasm. It seems, of course, better than my present condition, I must admit, but I don't quite feel a draw yet. That might change with more knowledge or perhaps with a visit to this society. Still, there's a little doubt that I can't quite get out of my mind: living a life like that in the presence of priests, knowing that I could not become one, might not be good for me. I'm a melancholy type who takes what he perceives as past failures very hard. Anything that reminds me of these, well, hurts, and it hurts a lot and for a long time. So do I really want to put myself in this position where my failure is always before me? It could be an opportunity for a lot of penance, a great nearness to the Cross in offering the "holocaust" to God that Aquinas spoke about in the Summa. But, I also know myself, and question whether my past problems with a sense of inferiority and despair wouldn't resurface and create an easy foothold for the devil in such a situation. It looks like it could be a matter of extremes here, and so on this issue more than any other, I'll really need to help of my spiritual director.

 

Moreover, if the priesthood isn't possible, I'm much more drawn to the life of a contemplative monk than that of an active brother. I am fortunate to know of a Benedictine establishment not too distant from me where the liturgy is beautiful--Novus Ordo and particular Breviary in Latin with Gregorian chant. Indeed, I plan on retreating there for about a week after the end of the semestre (I am a tutor at a college) and hope to speak to them about a possible vocation.

I feel however, particularly drawn to the priesthood, and particularly in a traditional order or society. I want to provide publicly what was denied me in my youth, for the salvation of many souls and the greater glory of God. If that's not possible, then I wish to go to the cloister, place myself under obedience, leave a world that loses more of its lustre year after year, and embrace the state of perfection.

 

I know the FSSP is still there, and is perhaps the most popular of the traditional groups, but having heard some of their Masses while travelling, I don't quite feel any sort of draw to them. It's difficult for me really to categorize; perhaps it can best be said that while I respect the fraternity, I don't quite see our personalities matching. Knowing that they send their men out to their parishes alone, rather than in small teams, also doesn't really sit well with me. A mixed contemplative-active order, like the Dominicans, could seem appealing, particularly to my scholarly side, but they are mostly an institute of priests, and I think I might have aged out of candidacy for the priesthood in the province wherein I live. If I chose to enter as a brother, I could foresee the same issues developing there as in the ICKSP.

So, the big questions I would have then are: Are there any institutes or societies of priests who celebrate the traditional Latin Mass, who live, preferably, in a community of some sort, and that will accept men of my age for formation? And generally, do you have any comments on anything I said here?

Thanks very kindly.

[inperpetuity]

Hello Bardegaulois,

 

Yes, I understand what your talking about although I am a woman.  Whether you would be able to be at peace with the clerical oblate status while not being able to go on to the priesthood is something you will have to discern carefully.  It could be that you are called to the priesthood so that may not be an option for you.   It is not easy, but there may be some clerical orders in France who are listed on the tradvocations.blogspot.com. I don't think the blog has been updated for a long time but you can at least access the list there.  Also, I know the Benedictine monks of Clear Creek accept men up to 40 I think for the choir monk vocation and these monks normally go on to become priests. I will pray that you will have the clarity you need in order to find and follow God's will.

[PhuturePriest]

You could always try the FSSP. I think they accept men up to 35 years of age. They are quite similar to the ICKSP, and they are Latin Mass-exclusive. However, if not, I second the recommendation to Clear Creek. You wouldn't regret at least visiting, trust me.

[truthfinder]

Hello,

if you speak French, try the Fraternite Saint Vincent Ferrier http://www.chemere.org/

They celebrate the traditional Dominican Mass, and are attempting to be integrated into the Order of Preachers - otherwise they are 'dominican'. 

Their website does not indicate an age, so you'd have to contact them.

[bardegaulois]

Thank you both very much. I've thought a little about Clear Creek, and it remains a possibility. I'm leaning a little more toward a monastery nearer me, largely because I'm not sure how the southern climate would affect me. Je parle français, et donc je peux penser de certaines monastères français aussi. Somehow the FSSP just doesn't enthuse me. See the original message.I respect and appreciate their work, but, based on those FSSP priests I've met, I don't really see myself as one of them. Of course, perhaps I'm wrong.

 

As of yet, though, it seems that nobody has picked up any faulty or fallacious suppositions in my original post. I've always found that my greatest leaps in understanding take place when others do that.

[Mary Catherine]

I would like to suggest you try this community.

 

www.papastronsay.com

 

They are on a small island of Scotland. Contemplative and apostolate.

 

But I am not sure of their age limit, you can try. They are fully traditional.

[Luigi]

I know of a number of Dominicans who entered after the age of 30 - some of them, well after 30. But that may vary by province. Still, the Dominicans are not strict about provinces in the sense that men from the Midwest join the West Coast Dominicans, men from the West join the Midwest province, and so forth. Unless you're committed to staying in one geographical region, I'd look into the Dominicans. Caveat discerner: No Dominicans I know celebrate the Latin Mass. But I also don't know all Dominicans. 

 

Archbishop Raymond Burke supported a group called the Canons Regular of the New Jerusalem. They celebrate the Latin Mass and are extremely traditional in a lot of ways. That's really all I know about them. That, and their habit looks kind of Dominican.  

Edited April 8, 2014 by Luigi

[AugustineA]

Brother, I think Truthfinder's recommendation is really spot on. First, they're French, and the Institute is heavily influenced by the French Catholic tradition. Second, they're Dominican, and the Institute shares the practice of correct thinking and teaching to a lofty degree. Third, they practice the traditional order of Mass. There will be differences, undoubtedly. They're different types of communities, and if it doesn't feel right I should think it better to continue searching. BTW I can relate to your love of the ICKSP and was very saddened to hear of your experience, really. :( 

[AnneLine]

Lots of Dominicans in the Western Province are committed to the Dominican Rite and other forms of Latin Mass, but the Province also does well-done OF masses.   I believe they are open to candidates up to 40, but you would have to check with them.  They do a 'Come and See' weekend at least twice a year.

 

http://vocations.opwest.org/home/

 

Lots of questions are answered on their FAQs page:

 

http://vocations.opwest.org/home/vocation/f-a-q/

[Benedictus]

I think it's important to settle on what you think is the driver vocation. What is the essential state you feel called that 'has' to be met by your calling. If you feel this is the priesthood then I would caution against entering where this will be denied to you, or isn't certain to happen when you join. Many institutes that have priests and brothers (Benedictines, Franciscans etc) will say that what needs to come first, or is the main driver, is a calling to the religious life as a brother. There may also be a calling to the priesthood evident, but the calling to religious life needs to be the driver for that state of life. If he becomes a priest this then serves to compliment his religious vocation. I would caution against seeing the religious vocation as a substitute for not getting ordained. I'm not necessarily saying you're doing this, it's just something that occurred to me. Instead, I would say to maybe explore more options where you could become a priest within a setting that appeals to you, be it a clerical order or a contemplative community. The calling needs to come before the secondary aspects, such as the mass that is said and so on. Hopefully you'll achieve both, but I'd be wary of not addressing the core vocation aspects in order to have other things, such as a certain mass or formality.
Maybe explore what is involved as a clerical oblate, and then see if this provides what you feel is OK.  I'm not sure what they mean by this either, but I know in other communities it tends to be akin to being a donate or lay brother within the community. Most men that adopt this state in other orders do so because they don't want the full vow obligations or because they are too old to be admitted to the usual formation. But at your age, and with your willingness,  there may well be other doors open to you.

[bardegaulois]

Thanks to all. Benedictus, I'd like to respond specifically to your post. Your comments regarding the "driver vocation" are very interesting, and something worth giving pause to a lot of young men. It's an issue in which there seems a lot of contradictory statements. I've known a number of religious priests in a number of institutes: some say they were called into religion first and that their superior asked them to pursue orders, and others say that they first considered the priesthood and were pulled more into an order after that than to a diocese. Personally, I'd think I fit more into the second category, the sum total of my long history being taken into account. But things change over time and with age, and age closes a lot of doors. It's a matter that will be occupying a good share of my discursive meditation for a while.

 

But that said, it's hard to say, from my perspective at the very least, that manner of liturgy is secondary. I know from years of experience that the nature of the liturgy a priest says indicates a lot about him or the order of which he is a member. And remember that I grew up in the 80s and 90s, where even a more solemn Novus Ordo was hard to be found. Spiritually, I flourish with good liturgy and wilt with bad liturgy. Unless the Lord Himself should make it otherwise clear to me, I truly must consider the nature of a group's liturgy to be a decisive factor.

 

But as I said above, age is perhaps the most important determining factor now. One thing that is surely definite is that the secular lay life does not suit me; that is evident through trial and error. I don't really say how my daily life is of service to God or His holy Church, nor do I say how it could be without a rather radical change. I had seen specifically religious (or society of apostolic life) priesthood, two particular things existing together. Whether it turns out to be one or the other is something further to meditate upon.

[Benedictus]

Actually I think both of your category examples illustrate how the driving vocation can play out.  In the first instance the religious brother is selected by his superiors to pursue holy orders. So his driving vocation is to be a religious brother; the priesthood is an additional element to that. It is equally likely he would have been contented to not have been asked to pursue holy orders. In the second instance the calling to priesthood come first, but was to be expressed through a religious institute as a brother. The driving vocation, or equal calling, is clear before entrance to the religious institute. So the discerner is able to choose an institute that would make it possible for both callings to be fulfilled.

I would also say I fit into the second category as I feel called to be a priest religious. So I am seeking entry to institutes where the majority of religious brothers are also ordained. If a man feels called to the priesthood and the religious life then I would advise caution around institutes that may delay or deny access to holy orders. Would God call a man to such an institute in this situation?

In terms of liturgy - it is important, it definitely is. But a vocation calling shouldn't be superseded by the liturgy. By that I'm saying if God is calling you to the priesthood then I would be wary of joining an institute that would meet your liturgical needs but deny you access to holy orders. The calling has to take precedence in this situation, or they both need to be equally addressed somewhere else.
Problems with access to holy orders is one of the reasons men transfer, or leave, their institutes, which obviously isn't ideal or easy.  So this is all best discerned well in advance, where possible.

I know what you mean about parishes in the 80's and 90's though -  it's one of the reason why I'd now never consider the Carmelites as a viable vocation (they run my parish).  I like the spirituality, just not the situation of the friars (o.carm) in my country.  I now attend a parish were the liturgy is done well, and there is a Latin Novus Ordo Mass (as well as an EF weekly Sunday Mass).  I don't have a preference for either the NO or the EF Mass,  I simply like either to be done well.  In actual fact there's bits of the rubrics in both that I like, and others less so. In the communities I'm discerning they all use the NO Mass (with elements of the Mass or LOTH in Latin), within a monastic context.

Anyway I hope your discernment continues well and you find a community that feels like home :pray:

[Eliakim]

What do you mean you don't fit in with the FSSP priests...elaborate for us? 

 

And some posts suggested Dominicans...are they traditional too?

 

E

[Pia Jesu]

Methinks you should be gentler with yourself, Bardegaulois...and you are surely not "a terrible secular layman"!  Backing up a bit on this thread, I'm glad to hear you are considering the Benedictines.  Last evening, EWTN showed "This Side of Eden" (a Salt & Light documentary on the Westminster Benedictine Abbey in Mission, British Columbia, Canada.  As Abbot Frater John had some insightful and compelling things to say about the monastic vocation, I hope you've had a chance to view it.  Perhaps your search "for kindred spirits" will take you there--or the Abbey of Mount Angel, in Oregon.  To hear you say that your interest in the priesthood is "strongly renewed" suggests that now may be the time for you to take that leap of faith.  As St. Francis de Sales writes in Finding God's Will For You, "Wait in peace of mind for the effects of God's good pleasure.  Let His willing always be sufficient for you, since it is always the best."  This mindset will allow the driver vocation issue to be set aside in favor of diving into the spiritual sea that you so long for.

 

http://www.mountangelabbey.org

 

http://www.westminsterabbey.ca

 

And I can't resist http://www.monks.org (The Abbey of Gethsemani Trappists do, indeed, believe--despite stated age limits--that

God calls when He wills!

 

PAX

 

[bardegaulois]

Eliakim, as I noted earlier, it's difficult for me really to categorize why I didn't have a strong sentiment concerning the FSSP. The homilies I've heard from them have seemed, for lack of a better term, pragmatic. I don't think that's really my style, and so an interest in them never really emerged. Now the Dominicans are not traditional in the sense of the ICK or FSSP, but their profound intellectual charism has shone through in each conversation I've ever had with a Dominican. Those that I've met have been reverent at the altar, eloquent in the pulpit (unsurprisingly), and stimulating in conversation. Thus, I'm perhaps willing to allow an exception to my preferred TLM-traditionalism for this thoughtful and rigorous order.

 

Pia Jesu, thanks for the De Sales quotation. "Let His willing always be sufficient for you..." I'll be thinking about that for a while, as I often do after reading the sensible and humane wisdom of St. Francis de Sales. So two mentions of the Abbey of the Gethsemani in two recent posts to me is leading me to believe that you might be quite the Mertonophile...

 

Thanks to you both.