Discernment Advice From Fr. Bob Bedard

[PhuturePriest]

[Anselm]

(Can I correct his grammar?)

[Mary's Margaret]

If you'd like to know more about Fr. Bob and the community he founded (the Companions of the Cross), here is the Companions' newsletter published after his passing - it gives a good overview and sense of the priest and the community.

 

http://thenewevangelist.com/sites/default/files/publications/CCNewsletter_Winter2012_Fr.BobMemorialIssue.pdf   

[Benedictus]

I was told by my parish priest to guard against becoming,  or being overly influenced by, a perpetual discerner. He said there were some older parishioners who didn't act on their callings adequately, and now they have an ongoing sense of frustration about it.

Anselm - yes, are you tempted to use red text :whistle:

[NotreDame]

I would say the fault of "perpetual discernment" probably lies with the fact that most folks like Fr Bob Bedard (vocations directors, religious superiors, etc) really don't know anything about what the Doctors of the Church teach on discernment. 

 

Ask these folks (vocations directors, religious superiors, and far too many "spiritual directors") how to "discern" and you won't get much back beyond "pray and adoration" along with some wishy-washy career-type advice along the lines the "what color is my parachute". 

 

If somebody follows that kind of advice it's no wonder they can't feel confident about any conclusion.  Or if someone was trying to learn about discernment, it's no wonder it would take a long time - they wouldn't have many people in the church to help them.

 

I also don't like seeing heads of a community use this kind of language, because I've seen it used to guilt people into rushing a decision and joining orders. 

 

I don't know Fr Bedard from Adam and I don't know the context of this quote.  I do know that I've seen more people in positions like him complain about perpetual discerners than I've seen actually teach traditional approaches to discernment.    

[Mary's Margaret]

Hello Notredame.  I did know Fr. Bob and do know the Companions of the Cross very well and can say that none of what you say above applies to  Fr. Bob, the Companions priests or their formation process.  Therefore, to use him as a springboard for this criticism gives quite an unfair and unfounded impression.  I would suggest researching the man, his writings and his community to avoid fabricating conclusions based on an out-of-context quote.  You might be pleasantly surprised.

[Anselm]

Anselm - yes, are you tempted to use red text :whistle:

 

Force of habit...

[NotreDame]

Hello Notredame.  I did know Fr. Bob and do know the Companions of the Cross very well and can say that none of what you say above applies to  Fr. Bob, the Companions priests or their formation process.  Therefore, to use him as a springboard for this criticism gives quite an unfair and unfounded impression.  I would suggest researching the man, his writings and his community to avoid fabricating conclusions based on an out-of-context quote.  You might be pleasantly surprised.

 

No, it's not unfair for me to comment on a quote when I have an issue with the substance of a quote, especially when I was explicit that I did not know Fr Bob nor the quote's context.  If anyone is unfair to Fr Bob it's the person that put what I think is an ill-advised, out of context quote in a Meme in the first place.

[PhuturePriest]

No, it's not unfair for me to comment on a quote when I have an issue with the substance of a quote, especially when I was explicit that I did not know Fr Bob nor the quote's context.  If anyone is unfair to Fr Bob it's the person that put what I think is an ill-advised, out of context quote in a Meme in the first place.

 

I've seen too many people discern perpetually without ever making a choice or doing anything more significant than calling a community. They never visit, they never go on live-ins, and at the slightest suggestion that they actually apply to the community they constantly talk about feeling undeniably called to for the past three years, they panic and say that it's not the right time.

 

That is the group of people Father Bedard is speaking to.

[NotreDame]

I've seen too many people discern perpetually without ever making a choice or doing anything more significant than calling a community. They never visit, they never go on live-ins, and at the slightest suggestion that they actually apply to the community they constantly talk about feeling undeniably called to for the past three years, they panic and say that it's not the right time.

 

That is the group of people Father Bedard is speaking to.

 

Look, we've had this discussion before and I'm sure it's taken place on VS numerous times before I showed up here. 

 

I completely get the point he is trying to make.  It's just that the words he and others use to make the point often have a completely different meaning than is intended or - in the case of this quote - are expressing something that is a non-sequitur.  This allows the whole "don't be a perpetual discerner" line to be used well outside of it's originally intended meaning.

 

If people are "discerning" and completely unable to take any action, then they probably aren't really discerning or getting decent spiritual direction regarding discernment, in which case the problem isn't perpetual discernment, but lack of education on discernment. 

 

If every religious order and seminary out there had the best interest of the candidate at heart then this wouldn't be a big deal but unfortunately there are a whole lot of groups (often the ones presenting the best image and putting the most effort into recruiting) who think the answer for everyone is to just join their group - and (as has been discussed on a recent thread here lately) that's a very harmful approach. 

 

Unfortunately, one of the arguments these groups will use to encourage candidates to enter is "don't be a perpetual discerner" and they will use this line regardless of whether the candidates have actually done any discernment and without any intention of actually educating the candidates on what discernment really is. 

 

So regardless of whether people using this phrase do so with good intentions, I just don't think it's a responsible phrase to use.  It's hard enough to get instruction on discernment in today's church and given all the problems in prominent religious groups and seminaries recently, discerners have reason to be wary.  Given this environment I'd rather see education on discernment coming from our religious leaders instead of guilt trips.

[Benedictus]

I do think this quote does have some truth, it doesn't concern me who said it or the context.  I haven't had negative experiences with SD's, priests or vocation directors.  I agree with the last post by Futurepriest. I don't see the point in getting defensive about it, or applying baggage to terms used. Te asctual quote didn't use the term perpetual discerner. That was said to me, and not in a negative way. This problem does exist and it's fair to be advised caution of it. I'm glad I was told this; I see and understand why also. There definitely are people who like the idea of religious life, but they don't take steps to follow it through. There's also some who, I'm borrowing from St Augustine, want to be holy and good, just not yet.  It can get to a point where individuals create a situation where they go around in circles. I've seen people do this at vocations groups, and it can cause stagnation. There are cases of people going to such groups for 5 or 10 years, and not moving on when others around them have done so. No amount of help or support necessarily makes a difference with this.  Of course each person has different problems, but it doesn't distract from the problem.

Ultimately if a person is sincere they will put their intentions into action, so they can get to a place of making a choice for themselves one way or another about what to do.  But refusing to make a decision for years isn't helpful! I don't think anybody is saying it's necessarily easy  but there is support, books, groups, and some very good spiritual directors, priests and vocations advisors out there. I don't think it's fair to necessarily lay most of the blame with other people; the discerner has to take a heavy bit of responsibility. I'm not convinced that discernment was  any easier in the past,  in fact the support and resources available then were probably much less.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Benedictus

[NotreDame]

Benedictus,  I'm not getting defensive about it.  I'm clarifying my post as well as the reasons for it.  I don't deny that some people take a while or choose to put off making a decision.  I've outlined in my previous post why I don't think the label "perpetual discerner" should be applied in those cases.

 

And certainly it was easier to discern in earlier times.  There was less opportunity cost for trying it out.  The traditional orders were still uniformly orthodox and true to their charisms and were very discerning on who they would allow to enter.  There was less cause to be wary because there were fewer questionable sects.

 

 

[Anselm]

But, Notredame, you highlighted an apparent problem before anyone had used the phrase 'perpetual discerner' or had said, in this thread, whether they thought that the phrase should be applied to any particular groups.

 

I'm sure you made a good point, but in this context it did come across as something of an over-reaction.

[NotreDame]

But, Notredame, you highlighted an apparent problem before anyone had used the phrase 'perpetual discerner' or had said, in this thread, whether they thought that the phrase should be applied to any particular groups.

 

I'm sure you made a good point, but in this context it did come across as something of an over-reaction.

 

Was there any other meaning implied by the quote other than lamenting "perpetual discernment"? 

[Anselm]

I suspect not, but you agree that we must guard against that, don't you? As far as I could see you were warning against people jumping into an order off the cuff, with which I agree, of course.