Mary Catherine Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 The Holy See has decided that they should have less Latin Masses and have more Ordinary Form Masses. This is within the Holy See's right, and the Franciscans of the Immaculate have been 100% cooperative, and aren't make a big deal out of it. If they're fine with it, we should be, too. And no, but I am applying for the seminary this weekend. I don't think they are fine with it. Which seminary are you applying for? FI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egeria Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Quite frankly, if any group tells you that they are being persecuted by the Holy See, I would be very wary of them, no matter how nice they might sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 It would be wise to be cautious of groups saying openly they are being persecuted by the Vatican. It's often for political reasons - some LCWR affiliated orders are an example of that. But I've not read or heard the FI ever say they feel persecuted. It's OK to feel disappointed or frustrated at not having mass said a specific way. I don't think that means they feel persecuted. Most of the comments I've read, or heard, on the matter are that the measures are understandable, allowing the FI to unite and clarify issues. I'd caution against this issue being used as a litmus test for them, or inflated to a point where it brings them false scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Catherine Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 Quite frankly, if any group tells you that they are being persecuted by the Holy See, I would be very wary of them, no matter how nice they might sound. I don't think the persecution is due to their fault. Anyway the sisters are not under direct persecution. And they are still receiving many vocations this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andibc Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Quite frankly, if any group tells you that they are being persecuted by the Holy See, I would be very wary of them, no matter how nice they might sound. It sounds like you are saying that the FI said they were being persecuted. I don't see that in any of the earlier posts on this thread (maybe I missed it) and I have never heard the friars or the sisters say that. We see the friars weekly and the sisters monthly and have had many conversations about this. Never have I heard them say they are being persecuted. They have said things along the line of "this is just a trial" and an opportunity to practice obedience and humility, like that experienced by other orders. All great orders go through trials as do all great saints. Don't let what is happening to them and the outcry of some that are not in the order lead you astray. Both the friars and the sisters will communicate with you by phone and email, so just go directly to the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 The Friar Order linked to them was persecuted by the Holy See since last year, I do think we need to be a little careful about posting this openly since most of us don't know the full story. Also, it would be suspect IMO to suggest the Holy See persecute people..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Catherine Posted April 6, 2014 Author Share Posted April 6, 2014 My friend has been a postulant with this order since May 31st last year. If all goes as planned, she should be clothed in the novice habit pretty soon. I haven't heard from her recently as she is not allowed contact with friends, only family. I pray for her all the time and, on a picture I recently saw on Facebook (that someone else posted), she appeared incredibly happy. She originally discerned with the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal (we attended the same discernment retreat together; that's how we met) but was unsure if God was calling her there (even after attending the pre-candidacy retreat for 2 weeks). As she discerned further, she applied and was accepted to do a mission with Christ in the City (Colorado). A few months later, she told me that she was leaving the program early as she had discerned, applied, and been accepted with the FSI. Her journey was a long one but she was so happy to enter! :) How nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Catherine Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 I do think we need to be a little careful about posting this openly since most of us don't know the full story. Also, it would be suspect IMO to suggest the Holy See persecute people..... Dose this kind of persecution never happened in the church's history? This news is already widely known throughout the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrysostom Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I think that whatever facts come out afterwards, discretion must be exercised especially now because it is an ongoing situation. I do wish that generalized, public accusations against the Sisters had not been made - but that is past. Pray, hope, and don't worry. I'm sure they are an excellent group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaTherese Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 But the thing is, that it isn't as one sided as you say. There were problems internally or something, or the Holy See would never have done what they are doing with the FFI. You can only properly say someone is being persecuted if it's a one sided thing. The order is young, and is going through growing pains, I guess. But again, I don't know the full details, you don't know the full details, and as far as I know the order doesn't intend to let us know the full details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corban711 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 They are not being persecuted by the Holy See. Their own fully professed members reached out to Rome for help and when the matter was looked into, Rome felt like their were some internal issues within the order that needed adjusting. Growing pains of many new congregations. I think a lot of new orders begin with a tremendous inspiration and call from the Holy Spirit, but unfortunately they don't always know how to organize and implement that vision seamlessly. So the Church gets involved and help them work out those kinks. It may not be the exact same thing, but its kind of like a new business. Businesses fail for many reasons. Some for a bad idea to begin with. Some have great ideas but need help being realized properly. The Franciscans of the Immaculate are an incredible congregation. They have many holy members and do much good in the Church. And once they can work out whatever things the Church is working with them on, they will be even more free to serve faithfully the inspirations of the Holy Spirit and the Immaculata in the Church and in the world. I would strongly recommend them to anyone seeking a faithful religious community. Their story is widely talked about on the internet, and many believe that they are being persecuted because of how it is presented...but that isn't true no matter how frequently it is told that way. It IS unfortunate that as a side effect of being investigated at the request of their own members they have lost the ability to more regularly say the Mass of the EF. However, their members have rightly decided to keep the matter "in the family" so to speak...dealing with it privately and hoping to not cause scandal or lack of trust in the Church. They have chosen to obey and work with the Church. This is not a case of the big, bad Church out to get some good community because they love holiness, prayer and tradition. I think its good to be very careful with our words when speaking of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Historian Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Their own fully professed members reached out to Rome for help and when the matter was looked into, Rome felt like their were some internal issues within the order that needed adjusting. 21. 21 out of some 350 decided to turn to Rome, because they were not satisfied with the way that the FFI was. "Martin Luther had the decency to leave" certainly springs to my mind at this time. If those 21 individuals were not content with the congregation, as it was being led by the founder, why hijack it and ruin it for everyone else? Go and start another foundation and do it your own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 21. 21 out of some 350 decided to turn to Rome, because they were not satisfied with the way that the FFI was. "Martin Luther had the decency to leave" certainly springs to my mind at this time. If those 21 individuals were not content with the congregation, as it was being led by the founder, why hijack it and ruin it for everyone else? Go and start another foundation and do it your own way. 21 is a lot of people! If it were 2 or 3, I'd agree with what you said but obviously something was wrong if a group of people agreed. If something was truly wrong, it is charitable and appropriate to alert someone. If you're finally professed, it's not that easy to leave. You have to be dispensed from vows. Maybe these people did not decide to leave because they truly loved the charism? Martin Luther became a Protestant, so I don't think that can be compared to the situation with the FFI. Just because you don't like the way things are done, it doesn't mean you should up and leave without finding a solution. If these friars committed their life to their charism, they deserve to seek an answer. If they weren't finally professed, well, that'd be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Catherine Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 (edited) Actually hundreds of friars asked to found another community when the intervention began, but just ignored by the pope. Anyway let's just stop talking about the political issues of this congregation here, as it is a vocation sub forum. Thanks for your kind cooperation. Edited April 25, 2014 by Mary Catherine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Actually hundreds of friars asked to found another community when the intervention began, but just ignored by the pope. Anyway let's just stop talking about the political issues of this congregation here, as it is a vocation sub forum. Thanks for your kind cooperation. The pope has every right not to give permission for a new community. In fact, most people who hope to found new communities don't succeed in their endeavour - few even get to the advanced stage in the proceedings where they seek papal recognition. Just because the pope did not agree that a new community was needed does not mean that he 'ignored' the friars. You yourself brought up the political issues with this congregation by accusing the Holy See of 'persecuting' and now 'ignoring' the FFI, which are very serious charges to make. I can only echo what others have said here: when you grow very attached to a community, it is easy to imagine that you know them well and you understand all the ins and outs of what's been going on. You don't. No matter how much you like and admire them, you don't have that insider knowledge. If you are going to pursue a vocation with the FFI, I would avoid leaping to judgment about either the Holy Father or the FFIs - just assume the best intentions on the part of each. It costs you nothing, and it is a far better way to begin the religious life than to publicly accuse the pope of persecuting people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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