Canonical Impediment To Ordination - Obtaining Dispensations - 5th Yea

[oremus1]

I have a friend who is in the 5th year of seminary. When he entered, the checks were not very rigorous, and he did not have to undergo psychological testing, disclose medical records - it was literally just filling in forms, writing some essays, and a couple references.

 

however he published his autobiography before entering seminary, and talks about depression and how he tried to kill himself, which he freely admits.

 

i was talking with a friend and it seems like one cannot be a priest if they attempt suicide so i looked it up in canon law which seemed so. probably no-one knows since it was like 10 years ago.  

 

> If you don't know, please don't troll.

> if you are just citing your opinion on the irregularities, please dont post

 

I want to know:

 

a) who should i tell (if anyone)

b) how easy is it for hiim to obtain dispensation? what would that involve? Just filling in a few forms? how long will it take?

d) would he be chucked out of seminary

e) are dispensations normally applied for just before ordination, or before entering seminary?

f) does this sort of thing happen alot?

g) are dispensactions always/usually granted especially if one has almost finished seminary

 

Can. 1040 Those affected by any impediment, whether perpetual, which is called an irregularity, or simple, are prevented from receiving orders

Can. 1041 The following are irregular for receiving orders.... 5/ a person who has mutilated himself or another gravely and maliciously or who has attempted suicide;

Canon 1043. If the Christian faithful are aware of impediments to sacred orders, they are obliged to reveal them to the ordinary or pastor before the ordination.

 

 

[PhuturePriest]

To answer your question about applications, it depends on the diocese. Most dioceses have psychological evaluations before you enter seminary, and then right before you're ordained to the diaconate.

 

This is a sticky situation. However, seeing as how he freely admits he attempted suicide, and that it was written in his autobiography, I would assume they already know.

[Lilllabettt]

I know of a guy who was already a transitional deacon, on his way to being ordained a priest in like 2 days. There was a family get-together to celebrate, at which point his Grandma just off-hand mentioned how she had baptized him  by pouring water over his bottom (they were Episcopalians).  And everyone was like: ummmmmm.

Basically, the poor guy needed to get everything conditonally re-done. Kind of a nightmare, but he was ordained on time.

 

Your friend probably already has a dispensation. If you can be reasonably sure that his bishop is aware of his past (i.e. your friend has been published talking about it)  I wouldn't worry about it.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Lilllabettt

[oremus1]

To answer your question about applications, it depends on the diocese. Most dioceses have psychological evaluations before you enter seminary, and then right before you're ordained to the diaconate.

 

This is a sticky situation. However, seeing as how he freely admits he attempted suicide, and that it was written in his autobiography, I would assume they already know.

 

 

No his did not have psychological testing. it was more if the priest thinks you are OK then you are OK.

Most people have not read his autobiography as it was a long time before he applied to seminary (he is an older candidate)

 

I know of a guy who was already a transitional deacon, on his way to being ordained a priest in like 2 days. There was a family get-together to celebrate, at which point his Grandma just off-hand mentioned how she had baptized him  by pouring water over his bottom (they were Episcopalians).  And everyone was like: ummmmmm.

Basically, the poor guy needed to get everything conditonally re-done. Kind of a nightmare, but he was ordained on time.

 

Your friend probably already has a dispensation. If you can be reasonably sure that his bishop is aware of his past (i.e. your friend has been published talking about it)  I wouldn't worry about it.

He is in seminary in another country and his bio is only published in english and was published about a decade before seminary. . so i have no idea if they know, but his UK superior didnt seem to know what i was talking about when i mentioned it (though i didnt specifically ak if he knew it)

 

also, the bio was not just about depression and suicide, it was a general biography, and the section about that issue was just a few pages in the middle. it wasnt like a chapter or a main topic f the book

 

is it easy to get a dispensation? or is it like an annulment which takes ages?

Edited March 31, 2014 by oremus1

[PhuturePriest]

No his did not have psychological testing. it was more if the priest thinks you are OK then you are OK.

Most people have not read his autobiography as it was a long time before he applied to seminary (he is an older candidate)

 

He is in seminary in another country and his bio is only published in english and was published about a decade before seminary. . so i have no idea if they know, but his UK superior didnt seem to know what i was talking about when i mentioned it (though i didnt specifically ak if he knew it)

 

also, the bio was not just about depression and suicide, it was a general biography, and the section about that issue was just a few pages in the middle. it wasnt like a chapter or a main topic f the book

 

is it easy to get a dispensation? or is it like an annulment which takes ages?

 

If his biography was published in English and he lives in the UK, I think there's a pretty good chance his superior was able to read it.

[oremus1]

If his biography was published in English and he lives in the UK, I think there's a pretty good chance his superior was able to read it.

he doesnt live in the UK, he lives in a non english speaking country, and like, it was not a bestseller exactly and was like 10 years ago long before he discerned the priesthood. also, it wasnt a catholic book, it was a secular one

Edited March 31, 2014 by oremus1

[PhuturePriest]

he doesnt live in the UK, he lives in a non english speaking country, and like, it was not a bestseller exactly and was like 10 years ago long before he discerned the priesthood. also, it wasnt a catholic book, it was a secular one

 

Wait, what do you mean by "biography"? People applying for the seminary are required to write an autobiography that's a few pages long, not an entire book. Did he write this biography for the seminary, or just because he wanted to?

[CatholicCid]

Contact the rector of the seminary. Once informed, he will be the best person to handle it. Hopefully, the seminarian has been honest about it in seminary formation and it is already something known and resolved.

 

 

 

a) who should i tell (if anyone) - The rector of the seminary, the man's bishop and vocation director.

b) how easy is it for hiim to obtain dispensation? what would that involve? Just filling in a few forms? how long will it take? - It would mainly be paperwork and, possibly, an evaluation with a psychologist. Ideally, he has already dealt with the issue and it no action will be necessary. 

d) would he be chucked out of seminary - Most likely, no. The bigger concern, most likely, would be if he has actively attempted to hide this issue from the seminary staff. Given that he included it in his biography, though, he most likely has already made them aware of it. One of the essays he wrote to enter seminary probably included a brief autobiography.

e) are dispensations normally applied for just before ordination, or before entering seminary? - Before ordination. Normally, it is good to know before or during seminary, so that the seminarian can sort the matter out long before ordination.

f) does this sort of thing happen alot? - Most likely. 

g) are dispensactions always/usually granted especially if one has almost finished seminary - If a matter has been overlooked in innocence and is no longer an issue, it should be granted.

Edited March 31, 2014 by CatholicCid

[blazeingstar]

This may be a very obvious question.

 

WHY DON'T YOU JUST ASK THE POOR GUY?

 

Obviously, if he's been open enough to write a book, he probably don't hide the fact.  You're sudden knowledge from a very outside position may have very little to do with is current state.

 

This thread seems like a teen who finds out their parent smoked pot as a teenager and now  is applying to be a cop.  (In the US illegal drugs bars one from civil service).  The hubris you have to make decisions deeply affecting this man without simply asking him is astounding.

[oremus1]

Contact the rector of the seminary. Once informed, he will be the best person to handle it. Hopefully, the seminarian has been honest about it in seminary formation and it is already something known and resolved.

 

 

 

a) who should i tell (if anyone) - The rector of the seminary, the man's bishop and vocation director.

b) how easy is it for hiim to obtain dispensation? what would that involve? Just filling in a few forms? how long will it take? - It would mainly be paperwork and, possibly, an evaluation with a psychologist. Ideally, he has already dealt with the issue and it no action will be necessary. 

d) would he be chucked out of seminary - Most likely, no. The bigger concern, most likely, would be if he has actively attempted to hide this issue from the seminary staff. Given that he included it in his biography, though, he most likely has already made them aware of it. One of the essays he wrote to enter seminary probably included a brief autobiography.

e) are dispensations normally applied for just before ordination, or before entering seminary? - Before ordination. Normally, it is good to know before or during seminary, so that the seminarian can sort the matter out long before ordination.

f) does this sort of thing happen alot? - Most likely. 

g) are dispensactions always/usually granted especially if one has almost finished seminary - If a matter has been overlooked in innocence and is no longer an issue, it should be granted.

 

Thanks, thats great. :-)

Ok, I only see him when they sometimes comes to Canada on apostolate, but I will just try to talk to him about it, since it is not a big deal.

Also to the poster Blazingstar - there is a world of difference between attempted suicide/homocide and smoking pot.

[Lilllabettt]

Also to the poster Blazingstar - there is a world of difference between attempted suicide/homocide and smoking pot.

 

I think you missed her point.

The point is not that smoking pot is related to attempting suicide.

The point is that whether your friend had attempted suicide or smoked pot, worrying about whether it has been disclosed to his superior before you have even asked him about it is a little silly.

[PhuturePriest]

Thanks, thats great. :-)

Ok, I only see him when they sometimes comes to Canada on apostolate, but I will just try to talk to him about it, since it is not a big deal.

Also to the poster Blazingstar - there is a world of difference between attempted suicide/homocide and smoking pot.

 

He's in his fifth year. If he's half as open as he says he is about it, trust me, they know.

[NotreDame]

There's also the possibility that (judging by the lack of an applications process) the relevant rector/superior/bishop/etc just don't care. There's more than a few groups with questionable practices in this regard that have managed to hang around.

 

[oremus1]

He's in his fifth year. If he's half as open as he says he is about it, trust me, they know.

 

no i mean at the time he was open about it, that was like a decade ago

 

There's also the possibility that (judging by the lack of an applications process) the relevant rector/superior/bishop/etc just don't care. There's more than a few groups with questionable practices in this regard that have managed to hang around.

 

yes, it is one of those groups. i'd prefer not to say which one. there are a few lax seminaries about nowadays unfo. pretty much any guy with two good reference letters and a reasonable attempt at a short essay entitled "why i want to be a priest" together with a vaguesly normal interview can easily get in.

 

whereas some seminaries are really strict and make seminarians do psychological testing, many interviews, all kinds of stuff.

[PhuturePriest]

no i mean at the time he was open about it, that was like a decade ago

 

 

yes, it is one of those groups. i'd prefer not to say which one. there are a few lax seminaries about nowadays unfo. pretty much any guy with two good reference letters and a reasonable attempt at a short essay entitled "why i want to be a priest" together with a vaguesly normal interview can easily get in.

 

whereas some seminaries are really strict and make seminarians do psychological testing, many interviews, all kinds of stuff.

 

Just ask the seminarian yourself if he's told them. That's the easiest way to handle this.