Why Get Married

[Basilisa Marie]

As I look around, I see more and more young girls, in their early teens, giving away the precious gift of their virginity at younger and younger ages to less and less desirable men. Which leads me to the question of, "Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for nothing?".

 

Because women are livestock, and men have no precious gift? I mean, just think through that line of reasoning. It basically implies that men want sex more than anything else, and that women should withhold sex in order to trap them in marriage before giving up the one thing that makes them valuable. Really I just hate that whole metaphor, but that's my own personal ax to grind. :) 

 

However, I definitely agree that the popularity of premarital sex does have an impact on marriage. People have been having premarital sex since the dawn of time, though sex really got separated from babies with the advent of modern birth control. If a couple is already having sex, that's one more thing that wouldn't change after they get married. I mean, if they're already living together, sharing finances, chores, intimacy...what's the point of throwing a really, really expensive party if nothing's going to change? 

 

The biggest two secular reasons I see around me are that the couple has decided that they're ready to have kids, so getting married signifies that they're finally ready to "settle down" and start a family in that respect.  The second reason is that our culture is getting better and better at manufacturing this idea that a wedding is the bride's "special day" where everything is supposed to be perfect and she's the absolute center of attention. Who cares about the marriage - they've already established that nothing's changing in their lives except maybe kids, and if it doesn't work out there's divorce for that. What really matters is the wedding. 

So for people (especially women) who buy into having sex and living together before marriage, but don't buy into the big fat selfish party agenda peddled by the wedding industry, there really isn't much incentive to get married at all. I've even overheard some couples talking about getting divorced...for tax reasons. 

[Lilllabettt]

It's a slap in the face to say that guys these days are just boys who don't become men until later.

 

I know. Reality bites. But its still reality.

 

On the neuro side we know the typical male brain reaches full maturity like 10 years after the typical female brain. On the psych side we know that men occupy the new "pre-adulthood" developmental stage like 5-8 years longer than women. 

 

Too lazy at the moment to look up the research, google if you're interested.

[southern california guy]

 

The biggest two secular reasons I see around me are that the couple has decided that they're ready to have kids, so getting married signifies that they're finally ready to "settle down" and start a family in that respect.  The second reason is that our culture is getting better and better at manufacturing this idea that a wedding is the bride's "special day" where everything is supposed to be perfect and she's the absolute center of attention. Who cares about the marriage - they've already established that nothing's changing in their lives except maybe kids, and if it doesn't work out there's divorce for that. What really matters is the wedding. 

So for people (especially women) who buy into having sex and living together before marriage, but don't buy into the big fat selfish party agenda peddled by the wedding industry, there really isn't much incentive to get married at all. I've even overheard some couples talking about getting divorced...for tax reasons. 

 

I agree.  I have known people who held off getting married -- for years -- because they didn't have the money or time for the sort of grand wedding that they wanted to hold.  And I think that honestly the idea of a grand wedding was even a little overwhelming to them.

[AugustineA]

I know. Reality bites. But its still reality.

 

On the neuro side we know the typical male brain reaches full maturity like 10 years after the typical female brain. On the psych side we know that men occupy the new "pre-adulthood" developmental stage like 5-8 years longer than women. 

 

Too lazy at the moment to look up the research, google if you're interested.

 

I've participated in a masters study on the field, obviously this isn't my area of expertise, but I still have to call shenanigans. 

 

Kay M. Hymowitz coined the term pre-adulthood, and it's all sorts of problematic. The first problem is developing a theory based on the effects of cultural change, and either mixing it or ignoring biological development. To say that we "know" it is.. well.. not very scholastic. The second issue with her work, and by far the more damaging, is the subject of her survey. She seems to be targeting poor-lower middle income families with a bias towards African American families, while in the market to create stereotypes to serve her thesis. She recently noted in the wall street journal that middle class Caucasian families have increasing marital rates.

 

As for the neuro science, which we can know. The idea that we have some ideal mark of development that we can trace male and female development along is antiquated. A fully developed woman will often have much greater skill at manipulating and employing language abilities, but at 12 years old will often still have the math skills of an 8 year old boy. Just do a search for WebMD archive, how female and male brains differ. 

 

At the end of the day, none of this stuff will get you a spouse, but it's interesting. 

[Lilllabettt]

I've participated in a masters study on the field, obviously this isn't my area of expertise, but I still have to call shenanigans. 

 

Kay M. Hymowitz coined the term pre-adulthood, and it's all sorts of problematic. The first problem is developing a theory based on the effects of cultural change, and either mixing it or ignoring biological development. To say that we "know" it is.. well.. not very scholastic. The second issue with her work, and by far the more damaging, is the subject of her survey. She seems to be targeting poor-lower middle income families with a bias towards African American families, while in the market to create stereotypes to serve her thesis. She recently noted in the wall street journal that middle class Caucasian families have increasing marital rates.

 

As for the neuro science, which we can know. The idea that we have some ideal mark of development that we can trace male and female development along is antiquated. A fully developed woman will often have much greater skill at manipulating and employing language abilities, but at 12 years old will often still have the math skills of an 8 year old boy. Just do a search for WebMD archive, how female and male brains differ. 

 

At the end of the day, none of this stuff will get you a spouse, but it's interesting. 

 

***nvm

 

***edit
 

Edited March 30, 2014 by Lilllabettt

[polskieserce]

The question you are asking has fewer solid answers than it did in the past, hence the decline in marriage.  Marriage has been on the decline for a long time.  There is no single reason why marriage has gone downhill.  Rather, it is a combination of multiple factors that have come together to change the playing field.  But here are the reasons why, in no particular order (as they come to me).  This probably isn't all of them, but it should be most of them.

 

1. Sexual Revolution - Ever since this social change and the advent of birth control, it has been easier and more socially acceptable for people to have sex outside of marriage.  There is no urgent rush to get married at 18 if you can have sex without marriage and not have to worry about a kid.

 

2. Prolonged Educational Requirements - In the 50s in the US, it was much easier for people to get out of high school, get a blue collar job, and have one person support the entire family on that income.  Nowadays, people have to get advanced education beyond high school, which can take several more years.  This undoubtedly adds several years onto the typical age when people get married.

 

3. People are less traditional/religious than before - People don't follow the old-school traditions/religious teachings like they did in previous decades.  People are more individualistic and more open to other practices that their grandparents would never have even considered.  People want to enjoy life after going through years of school before getting tied down with responsibilities once again.

 

4. Anti-male Divorce Laws - I already know some people are going to fight me on this statement since that's exactly what happened in threads I started in the past.  However, let me assure you that I do understand the laws.  The laws on the books now treat men like untapped crude oil that is a resource for women to use.  This is basically the reason why Bush was trying to tell poor women to get married, so the guy they are with and not the government is responsible for them.  Guys going through the divorce get raped by the system.  Child custody, child support, alimony, division of property, domestic abuse allegations, attorney fees.....guys get SCREWED in all of these ways.

 

4.5 Pro-Female Sentiment in Society -This is highly connected with reason 4, so I didn't count this as an entirely separate point.  But overall, society is pretty pro-female from a social/cultural standpoint and a policy standpoint.  Obama has pushed to lower the burden of proof to have a college guy be guilty of rape.  Also, all a girl has to do to get a guy in trouble is report the guy for hitting her, show the police a bruise (even if the guy didn't do it), cry about it in front of the judge, and the guy is 100% guilty :rolleyes:  The examples are too numerous to list, so I'm not even gonna try listing all of them.

 

5. Marriage Strike - In reaction to 4 and 4.5, there is a growing movement of men who are openly anti-marriage due to the unfairness of the legal system and are refusing the sign the legal contract.  After all, any lawyer will tell you that if you don't agree with the terms of a legal contract, you should not be signing it.

 

6. Financial incentives to stay unmarried but no incentive to marry - I don't know the specifics of these, but I heard that people are able to get more benefits if the woman is "officially" single and has a child out of wedlock as opposed to having a child to a man she's married to.  That and some changes in SS benefits (again I don't know the specifics of this point, so I can't answer in detail).

 

7. Absurd Divorce Rate - Why marry and spend so much money on a wedding if there is a good chance it won't last?  Doesn't sound like a very good return on investment.

 

8. Marriage is no longer the symbol of honor it once was - This kind of ties in with point 3 but I wanted to emphasize this specific detail more.  At one time, marriage was a much stronger symbol of honor between two people.  Divorce was a dirty scandal that made the whole family feel ashamed.  Nowadays, it's outrageous to even consider hoping that one's spouse, man or woman, is a virgin :rolleyes:  It is a disposable contract that people tear up once someone gets bored of their spouse.

 

9. Judgment Free Culture - People have an expanded sense of what is permissible and what's not.  They feel that no matter how outrageous their actions are, that it is nobody's place to judge them in a bigoted, archaic way :rolleyes:  This plays into marriage because it gives them the sense that they can commit numerous sexual indiscretions and not have to deal with any social stigma.

 

That's all I could think of for now.

 

 

Despite the evidence that marriage lowers poverty rates, many poorer women do not marry for due to the idea that the men around them are not "marriageable." They feel that the men wouldn't work, and just be an extra mouth to feed, therefore being an extra stressor. It's not so much because of birth control, but because it's better for them economically to NOT be married. 

 

I read an article a few months ago that addressed this very issue.  According to the article, most poor women who did get married were divorced shortly after and they were worse of than if they had never married in the first place, for the reason you pointed out (unstable men).

 

that's true, but I believe by any objective measure the situation with young men is worse. If for no other reason that women have a biological clock., the ticking of which can mature them quite rapidly. But I think western culture has also infantilized men in a particular way.

 

Well look at what has been happening to men over the past few decades.  It is only natural for men to take it easy with the institution of marriage.

 

I think many view formal marriage as unnecessary if they're comfortable living together and don't feel compelled to make anything "official."

 

You hit the nail right on the head.

 

[arfink]

I always wonder why we have these discussions on PM. If you want to find a spouse that's cool, but complaining about our entire culture as if it's conspired against you to make it impossible to find a suitable mate is kinda ridiculous. Finding a really good spouse has ALWAYS been hard.

[HisChildForever]

Well I for one am so excited to get married!  :bounce: I'll be a newly minted 27-year old and my fiancee will be just a couple months shy of 30. We make a combined 71k a year (hopefully that'll go up because he's due for a promotion/raise), we live in one of the most expensive parts of the country, and I owe close to 500 a month for my student loans. BUT we're going to make it work--and will be TTW during all this!! lol!

[arfink]

Well I for one am so excited to get married!  :bounce: I'll be a newly minted 27-year old and my fiancee will be just a couple months shy of 30. We make a combined 71k a year (hopefully that'll go up because he's due for a promotion/raise), we live in one of the most expensive parts of the country, and I owe close to 500 a month for my student loans. BUT we're going to make it work--and will be TTW during all this!! lol!

 

We're looking at starting out with probably less than half that. We'll be living in one of the least expensive parts of the country though.

[polskieserce]

I always wonder why we have these discussions on PM. If you want to find a spouse that's cool, but complaining about our entire culture as if it's conspired against you to make it impossible to find a suitable mate is kinda ridiculous. Finding a really good spouse has ALWAYS been hard.

 

Lol I'm not using this thread to complain.  I think the threads I started served the purpose well.  All I did was make a comprehensive list of reasons, and anti-male divorce laws and cultural sentiments are a part of that picture.  There is nothing ridiculous about that stuff, especially when you consider how many men hold that view.  You even said yourself in a prior thread that you have no opinion on that stuff.  So how are you now able to say the viewpoint is ridiculous if you supposedly had no opinion on the topic?  And I never said finding a good spouse was easy.

[southern california guy]

Lol I'm not using this thread to complain.  I think the threads I started served the purpose well.  All I did was make a comprehensive list of reasons, and anti-male divorce laws and cultural sentiments are a part of that picture.  There is nothing ridiculous about that stuff, especially when you consider how many men hold that view.  You even said yourself in a prior thread that you have no opinion on that stuff.  So how are you now able to say the viewpoint is ridiculous if you supposedly had no opinion on the topic?  And I never said finding a good spouse was easy.

 

I thought your post was excellent.  And I am married.

[arfink]

Lol I'm not using this thread to complain.  I think the threads I started served the purpose well.  All I did was make a comprehensive list of reasons, and anti-male divorce laws and cultural sentiments are a part of that picture.  There is nothing ridiculous about that stuff, especially when you consider how many men hold that view.  You even said yourself in a prior thread that you have no opinion on that stuff.  So how are you now able to say the viewpoint is ridiculous if you supposedly had no opinion on the topic?  And I never said finding a good spouse was easy.

 

You seem to believe I directed that comment at you. Amusing.

 

As for my stating I had no opinion, that was only in regards to legal issues, not to the myriad other things you like to complain about.

[AugustineA]

Let's all just stay single and get more done. 

[Ice_nine]

ugh, how do I block people on this site so I can't see thier posts?

[ardillacid]

their*