Breast Feeding At Mass

[Archaeology cat]

Winchester, I love you

[Jaime]

People always look at me weird when I breastfeed in public

[Cherie]

I must admit, when I had my first child, I just assumed that breastfeeding was to be done wherever, whenever, and no one should ever take an issue with it. I mean, why would anyone take issue with it, right?! I personally always used a cover in public with him, mostly because I was a new mom, hypermodest, and it felt more comfortable for ME. But I thought that especially since I had a cover, I couldn't offend ANYONE in the slightest, so I could literally breastfeed anywhere and no one would ever have an issue with it!

I have since found with my second child, to my great sadness and chagrin, that even whilst fully covered, people have some major problems with the simple fact that I'm taking part in the act of breastfeeding away from a dark room somewhere. It's extremely disheartening, it's rude, and it's WRONG. That is not the way mothers and their infants should be treated. Cover or no cover, a mom should feel comfortable breastfeeding her child ANYWHERE. Yes, ANYWHERE. Even in the pews. ESPECIALLY in the pews.

(And yes, it's a personal issue to me and I take it personally.)

[TheresaThoma]

Honestly I would prefer a mom to nurse her baby in the pew rather than be carrying a crying infant out of the sanctuary to the cry room/narthex/wherever. To me getting up in the middle of Mass with a crying infant would be much more distracting than to simply feed your child right there.

As far as cover or no cover I think that is up to the individual mom and baby. 

[Basilisa Marie]

Curiousing, yeah, we do have some responsibility to not intentionally cause others to fall. But that's balanced with people taking personal responsibility for themselves, and I tend to believe that we've swung way toward the 'help our neighbors' side of things, especially where women are concerned. There is soooo much rhetoric directed at women about how we need to do all of these things and modify all of these behaviors in order to protect men, and yet there's nothing that even comes close to matching that on the male side of things. Sure, we're starting to get there, but not yet. And this is one issue where I think men really need to step up their game.  I mean, come on, we're talking about women using parts of her body for their sole functional purpose, an action that is truly unique to what many theologians believe is a woman's first and most natural calling, motherhood.  I can't hardly think of any other action a woman can do that more fully symbolizes everything women are called to be through motherhood. And so when we tell women that breastfeeding is inappropriate behavior for a church, we're essentially saying that femininity is inappropriate in church. Plus if we demand that women absolutely must use a cover, we're basically conceding to our culture that has hyper-sexualized woman's bodies. 

So if a woman decides she doesn't want to use a cover to breastfeed in the pew, yeah, it might be distracting for some. Heck, it'll distract me a little bit too, because I'm not used to seeing it happen. But this is something where I (and my fellow Christians) can take some personal responsibility, guard our own eyes if need be.  Women are always asked to do things to make sure we're never ever giving men an opportunity to sin around us. Is a little balance such a hard thing to ask for? 

[PhuturePriest]

Curiousing, yeah, we do have some responsibility to not intentionally cause others to fall. But that's balanced with people taking personal responsibility for themselves, and I tend to believe that we've swung way toward the 'help our neighbors' side of things, especially where women are concerned. There is soooo much rhetoric directed at women about how we need to do all of these things and modify all of these behaviors in order to protect men, and yet there's nothing that even comes close to matching that on the male side of things. Sure, we're starting to get there, but not yet. And this is one issue where I think men really need to step up their game. I mean, come on, we're talking about women using parts of her body for their sole functional purpose, an action that is truly unique to what many theologians believe is a woman's first and most natural calling, motherhood. I can't hardly think of any other action a woman can do that more fully symbolizes everything women are called to be through motherhood. And so when we tell women that breastfeeding is inappropriate behavior for a church, we're essentially saying that femininity is inappropriate in church. Plus if we demand that women absolutely must use a cover, we're basically conceding to our culture that has hyper-sexualized woman's bodies.

So if a woman decides she doesn't want to use a cover to breastfeed in the pew, yeah, it might be distracting for some. Heck, it'll distract me a little bit too, because I'm not used to seeing it happen. But this is something where I (and my fellow Christians) can take some personal responsibility, guard our own eyes if need be. Women are always asked to do things to make sure we're never ever giving men an opportunity to sin around us. Is a little balance such a hard thing to ask for?

For perspective/educational purposes, what are some ways you believe men can step up their game to make sure they don't lead girls around them to sin?

[Ice_nine]

I hear this phrase "that's their problem" a lot on Phatmass.

 

Because that's reality. There are approximately 8 quintillion external variables you as an individual will never have any control over. Instead of driving yourself crazy trying to orchestrate a semi-perfect environment that will never exist, it's simply more effective to foster your own self-response. Maybe it's not fair or it's not right what some people do at mass, but rightness and fairness doesn't dictate how people behave because there will always be disagreement on what is right and wrong in these matters.

 

I get distracted all the time, and I'm sure I unwittingly distract people despite my attempts to be courteous. It's life. My only advice is don't stress or dwell too much about it.

[Lil Red]

I think there's a problem with children eating at Mass, in the pews, during Mass. But I am clearly in the minority, so...

 

 

most children do not need to eat during Mass and should not. (note: most) If a child is 2 and older, they don't need munchies to snack on. 

[Lil Red]

I hear this phrase "that's their problem" a lot on Phatmass. Like anyone ever getting distracted by another person at Mass is responsible for not having a stronger mind, like the person making a scene (I'm not talking about breastfeeding here) or making noise has zero responsibility to be considerate to others around him/her. That's really rude and selfish, I think.

 

The reason I found the breastfeeding mother kind of surprising is because it always rather surprises me when people do anything at Mass but pray. That's what Mass is for. And I'm of the opinion that churches are supposed to be quiet places, so when the whole parish starts chatting loudly after Mass, I'd say it's not some poor distracted person's fault for getting distracted: The people making noise in church are to blame.

 

What this all really boils down to is this, I think: What responsibility do we have to others for ensuring they can pray in a reverent and silent environment at church? And at what point does the responsibility to accommodate someone making a scene/noise fall on the distractable person, because the scene-making/noisy person's need is greater than theirs? (I can see breastfeeding falling into the latter camp, though I do think maybe a nice compromise would be covering oneself up or going to the narthex/cry room, at least in a parish where people aren't comfortable with breastfeeding at Mass.)

 

I don't think the line of responsibility for such things is clearly drawn in most parishes, and I think that causes a lot of frustration and anger between camps who view Mass and church differently. Some treat church as a gathering place (the after-Mass chatters), whereas others treat the church strictly as a place of prayer (the after-Mass pray-ers who insist upon going outside to chat). Some treat Mass as just any other place where physical needs should never be denied or postponed or removed (like maybe breastfeeders or parents who give their kids cheerios to eat in the pews), whereas others treat Mass as a unique place and time to focus solely on spiritual things (like people who think physical needs at Mass should be handled elsewhere). Whatever the different views of Mass and church that underlie disagreements about how we ought to behave in church, I think they ought to be explicitly discussed in parishes so that parishioners can reach an agreement (and maybe a compromise) on how people will behave at church in their parish, for the sake of peace. Otherwise those of a minority opinion are likely to feel rudely treated, and foment ill will or, worse yet, leave.

 

That's a broader issue, of course, but I can see breastfeeding being one specific instance of where such disagreements might arise. So what I'm trying to do here is figure out where that line of responsibility/consideration is on the breastfeeding issue. And it seems most people don't think breastfeeding counts as making a scene or being distracting. I wonder, though, if a minority of people who do find this distracting would feel there's a "tyranny of the majority" effect going on in their parishes.

 

so you'd rather a mom like Arch cat with 3 kids, get up and leave during Mass to breastfeed her child? because i can't see any way that would be distracting at all :rolleyes: :P

[blazeingstar]

most children do not need to eat during Mass and should not. (note: most) If a child is 2 and older, they don't need munchies to snack on. 

 

At the same time, we do need to be careful about judgement, I think you are but too many people don't get what "most" means.  My friend's little sister was autistic and the only way she could sit through anything...be it school, Mass...even a television show was to have a snack every few minutes.

 

She looked like an ordinary, sweet, 4-6 year old girl but she was profoundly handicapped.  I can't tell you how many rude, judgmental people gave looks or said mean things.

 

I think the problem Curiosing has fabricated is the idea that somehow Mass is for the elite and that anything short of a suit and tie, or floor length, sleeved dress and perfect behavior is somehow scandalous.

 

Mass is for the broken, and parents do their best.  There is so much judgment towards breastfeeding mothers, there are breastfeeding moms who are very judgmental.  There are many moms who are discrete and appropriate.  There is, unfortunately, a backlash group who are upset by the fact that they were judged who go out of their way to be inappropriate.  This is a feminine war on each other, and it really needs to end.

 

When men get involved they tend to make things legalistic and moral so on top of the emotional wars we've thrust ourselves in we've now have these crazy opinions that don't bear any weight yet seem to hold the weight of the world.

[Selah]

(Just a general comment)

 

Quite honestly.

 

"When men get involved"

 

Why should they? It's none of their business. The mother is feeding her baby.

 

Not everything is about men. Or for them to worry about. Women don't need to be watched by the morality police so they make sure she doesn't "cause them to stumble." 

[IcePrincessKRS]

You know that smothered feeling you get when you put your head under a blanket? Now imagine doing that while you're chugging a drink. Doesn't sound super fun, does it?

 

For many women a nursing cover is impratical and a colossail pain in the rump. I found I was able to be more discreet and modest without one. Most people had no idea I was feeding my baby, and if they were hovering close enough to see the possible 1/4 inch of flesh that may have been exposed maybe they ought to back off a little and stop invading my personal space.

[Basilisa Marie]

For perspective/educational purposes, what are some ways you believe men can step up their game to make sure they don't lead girls around them to sin?

 

Well, it starts with the basic idea going around this thread - we exert a finite amount of control over our environment, so we need to remember that each of us is ultimately responsible for our own sin. And remember that intrusive thoughts aren't sinful unless we entertain or indulge in them. I really, really don't like most ideas surrounding emotional chastity, but I have to admit that for many teenage girls (and some very young adults), there's an element of truth to it.  So I think clear communication, being up front with intentions, can help everyone avoid emotionally hurtful situations. I notice a fair chunk of chastity rhetoric focuses on how women are "gatekeepers" for sexuality, when in reality "it takes two to tango". If both partners are actively working to guard the chastity of both of people, we don't have to constantly rely on women to say no because men just can't handle it. It's not about being responsible for the state of another person's soul, it should be about helping the other person be responsible about the state of their own soul. 

It's a give and take. So like, I think it's laudable if women choose to cover up when they get out of the water at the beach, especially if she prefers to swim in a more revealing swim suit. It's not a great idea for us to wear skirts and tops that we have to worry about moving certain ways in so we don't accidentally flash someone. That's one way we can "give." But something like breastfeeding? It's such a natural, incredibly feminine activity that I have a hard time understanding why men can't be the ones to "give" in this situation. The problem isn't with the activity or with our bodies. The problem lies in the way our culture has sexualized them. 

[Selah]

Okay. I still don't see how it's a modesty issue. 

 

Again, kind of proves my point that our culture has sexualized a woman's body where even such a tender practice such as breastfeeding is "immodest."

 

Don't go around topless, men. You have nipples too. I might "stumble".

 

(fun fact; sometimes men can lactate)

Edited March 25, 2014 by Selah

[PhuturePriest]

Okay. I still don't see how it's a modesty issue. 

 

Again, kind of proves my point that our culture has sexualized a woman's body where even such a tender practice such as breastfeeding is "immodest."

 

Don't go around topless, men. You have nipples too. I might "stumble".

 

(fun fact; sometimes men can lactate)

 

Because breasts were made to turn men on and play with during sex. Didn't you know?