Selah Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 My friend has breastfed in front of me when I visit. She does use a cover, but if she didn't I wouldn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Can't say I ever assumed that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Can't say I ever assumed that Not you in particular, but other people who aren't lactavists automatically assume male lactavists are lactavists because they like breasts. It is odd, because all of the men completely obsessed with breasts that I've known/seen are some of the most ardent anti-breastfeeding in public group. I think it's because they associate breasts with sex rather than their actual purpose, so they see it like a woman taking her pants off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Ha. I could go on a side rant about how women's bodies have been so sexualized and objectified that men can go topless and women cannot in our culture, and the littlest bit of skin might make a man "stumble" buuuuuuut I'll just go sit over here. Edited March 25, 2014 by Selah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Ha. I could go on a side rant about how women's bodies have been so sexualized and objectified that men can go topless and women cannot in our culture, and the littlest bit of skin might make a man "stumble" buuuuuuut I'll just go sit over here. Well, rest assured that there's at least one male lactavist in North America who doesn't care how you choose to breastfeed. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Not you in particular, but other people who aren't lactavists automatically assume male lactavists are lactavists because they like breasts. It is odd, because all of the men completely obsessed with breasts that I've known/seen are some of the most ardent anti-breastfeeding in public group. I think it's because they associate breasts with sex rather than their actual purpose, so they see it like a woman taking her pantaloons off.unfortunately true. Something I've noticed about children in mass in General (and breastfeeding in particular) is that the child is expected to change to make the adults comfortable. Shouldn't the adults be mature enough to accept young children and their needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 unfortunately true. Something I've noticed about children in mass in General (and breastfeeding in particular) is that the child is expected to change to make the adults comfortable. Shouldn't the adults be mature enough to accept young children and their needs? I have never thought about it that way before, but that is a very profound observation. Why do adults feel kids should conform to keep themselves comfortable, especially younger kids and babies? It makes no logical sense when you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Obviously we teach our kids how to act at Mass, but I always expect age appropriate things. I mean, Leo climbs up the pew and says "hiya!" To the priest and blows kisses. He's just a wee thing, though, and obviously Kieran (6) doesn't still do things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Obviously we teach our kids how to act at Mass, but I always expect age appropriate things. I mean, Leo climbs up the pew and says "hiya!" To the priest and blows kisses. He's just a wee thing, though, and obviously Kieran (6) doesn't still do things like that. If/when I'm a priest one day, if that happens to me, I'm going to laugh hysterically. Although a child doing that would scandalize a lot of people I know, I don't think it would bother me very much. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 If some people are easily distracted/are perverts, that's their issue, not the mother's or the child's. I hear this phrase "that's their problem" a lot on Phatmass. Like anyone ever getting distracted by another person at Mass is responsible for not having a stronger mind, like the person making a scene (I'm not talking about breastfeeding here) or making noise has zero responsibility to be considerate to others around him/her. That's really rude and selfish, I think. The reason I found the breastfeeding mother kind of surprising is because it always rather surprises me when people do anything at Mass but pray. That's what Mass is for. And I'm of the opinion that churches are supposed to be quiet places, so when the whole parish starts chatting loudly after Mass, I'd say it's not some poor distracted person's fault for getting distracted: The people making noise in church are to blame. What this all really boils down to is this, I think: What responsibility do we have to others for ensuring they can pray in a reverent and silent environment at church? And at what point does the responsibility to accommodate someone making a scene/noise fall on the distractable person, because the scene-making/noisy person's need is greater than theirs? (I can see breastfeeding falling into the latter camp, though I do think maybe a nice compromise would be covering oneself up or going to the narthex/cry room, at least in a parish where people aren't comfortable with breastfeeding at Mass.) I don't think the line of responsibility for such things is clearly drawn in most parishes, and I think that causes a lot of frustration and anger between camps who view Mass and church differently. Some treat church as a gathering place (the after-Mass chatters), whereas others treat the church strictly as a place of prayer (the after-Mass pray-ers who insist upon going outside to chat). Some treat Mass as just any other place where physical needs should never be denied or postponed or removed (like maybe breastfeeders or parents who give their kids cheerios to eat in the pews), whereas others treat Mass as a unique place and time to focus solely on spiritual things (like people who think physical needs at Mass should be handled elsewhere). Whatever the different views of Mass and church that underlie disagreements about how we ought to behave in church, I think they ought to be explicitly discussed in parishes so that parishioners can reach an agreement (and maybe a compromise) on how people will behave at church in their parish, for the sake of peace. Otherwise those of a minority opinion are likely to feel rudely treated, and foment ill will or, worse yet, leave. That's a broader issue, of course, but I can see breastfeeding being one specific instance of where such disagreements might arise. So what I'm trying to do here is figure out where that line of responsibility/consideration is on the breastfeeding issue. And it seems most people don't think breastfeeding counts as making a scene or being distracting. I wonder, though, if a minority of people who do find this distracting would feel there's a "tyranny of the majority" effect going on in their parishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Breasts really can't wait for one hour? Edited March 25, 2014 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 I have never thought about it that way before, but that is a very profound observation. Why do adults feel kids should conform to keep themselves comfortable, especially younger kids and babies? It makes no logical sense when you think about it. It makes perfect sense. We're raising children to be adults, not to remain children forever, so part of their upbringing is learning to behave in ways that are appropriate in adult society. If we let children behave however they want, whenever they want, wherever they want, when would they ever learn to behave like responsible adults? Of course, we were talking about infants, not children... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I was at Mass today and a woman in front of me started breastfeeding her baby in the pew, during Mass. I was kinda' surprised. She had one of those little blankets so it was perfectly modest and everything. I just wondered how common this is. In case anyone feels like reading into what I'm saying here, let me just clarify that I have zero problem with women breastfeeding in public. I'm just not sure how I feel about it happening in the pews, during Mass. I'm interested in hearing others' opinions on this, but I'm especially interested to hear (cultural) "policies" on this in the Church throughout the centuries. If anyone can quote priests, bishops, popes, or other Catholic historians or writers on this topic, I'd be really grateful. I can't imagine anyone in the past devoting any time at all to this non-issue. I sometimes think it would be wise to have a few days out of every year where starving predators are turned loose en masse upon the populations in first world nations. You know, for perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Breasts really can't wait for one hour? I really want to make a bagged milk joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yes, Mass is for prayer. I, too, get irritated by idle conversations in the sanctuary. Adults and older children can control themselves in that way. At the same time, infants and young children have not yet learned everything about that behaviour. I'm not saying they run wild, but their normal childlike behaviour should be tolerated without sequestering them elsewhere. And yes, if someone has a problem with breastfeeding, it is their problem. Not that they are fully culpable given societal views on breastfeeding/breasts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now