Breast Feeding At Mass

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

So your saying everyone should be on the bottle?

 

I love seeing women breastfeed, it get's me high and my red blood flowing, and i'm not talking sexually i'm talking in humilty and by humility i'm not talking pie in the face i'm talking humble adoration of Gods created things. Breast feeding has nothing to do with lust and adam and eve covering up. :(

Edited March 27, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Ice_nine]

relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oYmzdvMoUUA

 

WARNING:semi-pornographic

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Breast feeding is not sexual. :bomb:  But also i would have got that blue footed boobie if i where a blue footed boobie, i'm a way better dancer. But thank the LORD where not blue footed boobies because not everyone can dance right. :)

 

Alas for the world has confused intimacy with sexuality. :(

Edited March 27, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Eliakim]

So your saying everyone should be on the bottle?

 

I love seeing women breastfeed, it get's me high and my red blood flowing, and i'm not talking sexually i'm talking in humilty and by humility i'm not talking pie in the face i'm talking humble adoration of Gods created things. Breast feeding has nothing to do with lust and adam and eve covering up. :(

 

at Mass yes, use bottle.  Elsewhere may use boob.

 

Get high watching breastfeeding elsewhere. 

 

Late Medieval art show dicks and boobs. But no privates at Mass.

 

E

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I will be sitting at the edge of the pew with my wife and baby and she can just duck out to the foyer to breast feed and burp if the baby gets hungry, and not all people trust formula dude or dummies.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

This all reminds of verses in holy scripture that say something like this " woe to the women at breast, she will cry for the mountains to fall in upon her." Jesus actually re iterates something like this as well. This disgusts me that we as Christians would in anyway discriminate against a women whom breast feeds a child and cause her to wish to be dead.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

http://youtu.be/3Ym6NFk7AgQ

 

That's what is really up not women breast feeding there babies.

[PhuturePriest]

Whoa, hold on. I know you must be feeling like everyone is ganging up on you, Curiousing, because you seem to be the only one with your opinion in the whole thread. And yeah, we kind of are.  But you did ask for other opinions, and were the person who brought up that women should cover because the minds of men may wander, so that's how that got brought up. 

Frankly I don't think any theologians have really commented on the issue. A lot of times they don't on things like this, for a number of reasons, some of which are probably that it's a cultural norm and not a point of theology. If you're looking for the opinions of Catholic bloggers, I guess there's google for that. I may be wrong, but it looks to me in your OP that you were looking for some kind of rule about it that we could find based on what the Church has historically said about it. But (at least speaking for myself), I don't think it's the kind of issue that's best tackled in that way. Instead, I think it's better to approach it from a moral or cultural perspective. Heck, I'll even admit that I get a little uncomfortable when I see a woman breastfeeding at Church without a cover. But at the same time, I believe it's more important for a woman to be able to do it, for reasons I've already outlined. 

 

Maybe you're right, more men could provide their insight in this thread.  

 

Are you saying more men other than me need to post? Is not my opinion infallible, golden, and said with the support of all men everywhere? Seriously, Basilisa. We've been over this.

 

Anyway, speaking from personal experience, the only time in my life I ever would have "stumbled" when looking at an exposed breast in public was when I was 14 and my mind was messed up and over-sexualized from pornography. I don't see how a man could stumble when looking at a mother nursing her child unless his brain was messed up from pornography, but again, that's just me. Other men might stumble regardless. None have seemed to indicate that thus far, though.

[fides' Jack]

It's a little different if the baby is older. I'm used to young babies, so I think in terms of young babies. Sorry if I offended you.

 

4-5 months is an old baby for you?

 

Whoa, hold on. I know you must be feeling like everyone is ganging up on you, Curiousing, because you seem to be the only one with your opinion in the whole thread. And yeah, we kind of are.  But you did ask for other opinions, and were the person who brought up that women should cover because the minds of men may wander, so that's how that got brought up. 

Frankly I don't think any theologians have really commented on the issue. A lot of times they don't on things like this, for a number of reasons, some of which are probably that it's a cultural norm and not a point of theology. If you're looking for the opinions of Catholic bloggers, I guess there's google for that. I may be wrong, but it looks to me in your OP that you were looking for some kind of rule about it that we could find based on what the Church has historically said about it. But (at least speaking for myself), I don't think it's the kind of issue that's best tackled in that way. Instead, I think it's better to approach it from a moral or cultural perspective. Heck, I'll even admit that I get a little uncomfortable when I see a woman breastfeeding at Church without a cover. But at the same time, I believe it's more important for a woman to be able to do it, for reasons I've already outlined. 

 

Maybe you're right, more men could provide their insight in this thread.  

 

My wife pointed this thread out to me, and then directed me not to try to cause problems.  My initial thought was to tell all the moms out there to go make formula bottles, and then grab some popcorn while the shouting match started...   :)

 

Anyway - I just want to post my support of everything that Curiousing has been saying.  It seems to me that she is one of only a few people in this thread who is being intellectually honest.  Curiousing, I agree with everything that you've said.

 

Since y'all have mentioned maybe more men providing insight, here goes:

 

A couple different issues have been brought up regarding why breastfeeding during Mass might be bad, and nobody seems to be taking it any further.  The truth is that this is a complex issue, and there are probably hundreds of reasons not to breastfeed during Mass, and hundreds of reasons to do just the opposite.  

 

So which reasons are more important?  A couple people have brought up that they think the real issues here are strictly cultural, and that may be the case.  I think if we look at it that way it might make more sense, or at least it might make it easy to turn this into a simple moral question.  Are the stigmas associated with breastfeeding during Mass a cultural phenomenon, or can they instead be attributed to human nature?

 

What stigmas are we talking about?  The over-sexualization of the female body?  Well, I'm sure that's both cultural and human nature.  What about the concept of distraction at Mass?  Yes, that's certainly an issue - and I'm sure that's also both a cultural problem and one of human nature.  Someone brought up the idea that some men are just horny and seeing that makes them uncomfortable.  That's also an issue, and also probably both cultural and human nature.  Someone else brought up that some men are just perverted if they are aroused by an exposed breast.  What about other issues that nobody has mentioned yet?  What about those teenage and preteen boys who are struggling to become men, but have natural sexual curiosity about breasts?  What about the scandal that it could cause to those who, while not perverted, have very strong feelings about what should and should not be displayed (which may be entirely cultural)?

 

The truth is that it doesn't matter if these issues are cultural or part of human nature - it should not change the way we respond to them.  I think we all agree that we live in an over-sexualized culture.  It's sad, really, but the absolute wrong way to deal with that is to push an agenda by exposing the breasts you think are non-sexual to the 9 out of 10 men who are hooked on porn (and are therefore perverted).  And to those who are not perverted, but who would feel scandalized at Mass - it might very well be completely cultural problem, but it's a problem nonetheless and should not be simply ignored or be an occasion for turning the blame tables.

 

The truth is that we are all perverted in some way.  Way back when they called it concupiscence.  It may not have been in our original nature, but it is now.  

 

The truth is that it doesn't matter if "it's their problem", because Christian charity calls us all to serve each other so much that we ourselves suffer.  The Church reminds us that by following Christ, we assume responsibility not only for our own sins, but also for those around us.  We have an obligation to do everything we can to not be occasions of sin to others.  That doesn't mean necessarily the 30 people sitting behind you at Mass, but it could very well mean that one other perverted guy sitting next to you.

 

The truth is that the entire human body is sexual, and was designed by God to be so.  If you go and make love to your spouse strictly using only those organs involved directly in reproduction, yer doin it wrong.

 

My personal opinion is that uncovered breast-feeding is inappropriate anywhere in public (at least where there are issues of over-sexualized cultures).  I can see valid arguments both supporting and against covered breastfeeding during Mass.  If it's an issue of the child taking the cover off, well - train him/her not to do so.  If the kid is normal and is over a certain age (which will be different for each kid) - train him/her to go without feeding for longer periods of time.  If you're worried about the distraction of leaving Mass, remember that that distraction is a far better alternative morally than possibly leading another into sin - even unknowingly, and even if that person is perverted already.

 

There you have it - you wanted more male insight.  I'm sure you didn't want mine, but you got it anyway.

 

Cheers!

Edited March 27, 2014 by fides' Jack

[Selah]

relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oYmzdvMoUUA

 

WARNING:semi-pornographic

 

This is why we are friends.

[CrossCuT]

4-5 months is an old baby for you?

 

 

My wife pointed this thread out to me, and then directed me not to try to cause problems.  My initial thought was to tell all the moms out there to go make formula bottles, and then grab some popcorn while the shouting match started...   :)

 

Anyway - I just want to post my support of everything that Curiousing has been saying.  It seems to me that she is one of only a few people in this thread who is being intellectually honest.  Curiousing, I agree with everything that you've said.

 

Since y'all have mentioned maybe more men providing insight, here goes:

 

A couple different issues have been brought up regarding why breastfeeding during Mass might be bad, and nobody seems to be taking it any further.  The truth is that this is a complex issue, and there are probably hundreds of reasons not to breastfeed during Mass, and hundreds of reasons to do just the opposite.  

 

So which reasons are more important?  A couple people have brought up that they think the real issues here are strictly cultural, and that may be the case.  I think if we look at it that way it might make more sense, or at least it might make it easy to turn this into a simple moral question.  Are the stigmas associated with breastfeeding during Mass a cultural phenomenon, or can they instead be attributed to human nature?

 

What stigmas are we talking about?  The over-sexualization of the female body?  Well, I'm sure that's both cultural and human nature.  What about the concept of distraction at Mass?  Yes, that's certainly an issue - and I'm sure that's also both a cultural problem and one of human nature.  Someone brought up the idea that some men are just horny and seeing that makes them uncomfortable.  That's also an issue, and also probably both cultural and human nature.  Someone else brought up that some men are just perverted if they are aroused by an exposed breast.  What about other issues that nobody has mentioned yet?  What about those teenage and preteen boys who are struggling to become men, but have natural sexual curiosity about breasts?  What about the scandal that it could cause to those who, while not perverted, have very strong feelings about what should and should not be displayed (which may be entirely cultural)?

 

The truth is that it doesn't matter if these issues are cultural or part of human nature - it should not change the way we respond to them.  I think we all agree that we live in an over-sexualized culture.  It's sad, really, but the absolute wrong way to deal with that is to push an agenda by exposing the breasts you think are non-sexual to the 9 out of 10 men who are hooked on porn (and are therefore perverted).  And to those who are not perverted, but who would feel scandalized at Mass - it might very well be completely cultural problem, but it's a problem nonetheless and should not be simply ignored or be an occasion for turning the blame tables.

 

The truth is that we are all perverted in some way.  Way back when they called it concupiscence.  It may not have been in our original nature, but it is now.  

 

The truth is that it doesn't matter if "it's their problem", because Christian charity calls us all to serve each other so much that we ourselves suffer.  The Church reminds us that by following Christ, we assume responsibility not only for our own sins, but also for those around us.  We have an obligation to do everything we can to not be occasions of sin to others.  That doesn't mean necessarily the 30 people sitting behind you at Mass, but it could very well mean that one other perverted guy sitting next to you.

 

The truth is that the entire human body is sexual, and was designed by God to be so.  If you go and make love to your spouse strictly using only those organs involved directly in reproduction, yer doin it wrong.

 

My personal opinion is that uncovered breast-feeding is inappropriate anywhere in public (at least where there are issues of over-sexualized cultures).  I can see valid arguments both supporting and against covered breastfeeding during Mass.  If it's an issue of the child taking the cover off, well - train him/her not to do so.  If the kid is normal and is over a certain age (which will be different for each kid) - train him/her to go without feeding for longer periods of time.  If you're worried about the distraction of leaving Mass, remember that that distraction is a far better alternative morally than possibly leading another into sin - even unknowingly, and even if that person is perverted already.

 

There you have it - you wanted more male insight.  I'm sure you didn't want mine, but you got it anyway.

 

Cheers!

 

Some very good points!

 

I think you articulated better than I did. I dont mind breastfeeding, but I had the same reaction to most of the peoples response of "Its their problem".

 

I didnt like that.

 

I think that we all need to understand that we live in a world with other people. We arent in a bubble by ourselves. 

Now Im  not saying that any given situation has an obvious solution, but lets just be understanding of each other.

[Basilisa Marie]

I wonder if the attitude of "it's their problem" partly comes from the fact that most women feel like everyone thinks they have a right to voice their opinion at them about whether or not they're raising their own child the "right" way. Moms are bombarded with strong opinions all the time, so the "it's their problem" answer may sound callous, but might be a product of having to deal with that. 

[CrossCuT]

At the end of the day:

 

• Mothers need to be understanding that people are uncomfortable. Take heed and be aware of those around you and if a privacy option is not inconvenient, take it. Not everyone has an activly breast feeding child in their house or in their inner circle of friends so it isnt something they are used to seeing. Regardless if the reasons, It CAN be distracting.

 

• Other people need to be aware that mothers dont always have the opportunity to go somewhere private OR can tell their baby when and where they can get hungry. If a baby starts crying in a public place, the mother needs to feed the baby and you cant sit here and get all mad. It is NOT ok to walk up to them and give them the 3rd degree.

If we can all just be more understanding and loving of each other, none of this would be a problem.

 

[blazeingstar]

I wonder if the attitude of "it's their problem" partly comes from the fact that most women feel like everyone thinks they have a right to voice their opinion at them about whether or not they're raising their own child the "right" way. Moms are bombarded with strong opinions all the time, so the "it's their problem" answer may sound callous, but might be a product of having to deal with that. 

 

That and the fact that there seems to be a population of both Catholics and other religions that are not very infant friendly.

 

Again, throughout history postpardum moms are persona non grata at SO MANY functions in the religious world.  Isn't it about time that we treat those mothers...breastfeeding infants and all... like humans rather than dirty beasts?

[CrossCuT]

.

Edited March 27, 2014 by CrossCuT