New Obamacare Thread

[Isidore_of_Seville]

Dont assume that is my position. If you asked me instead, I would have told you that no, I dont support pushing birth control.

In fact I very very very much support education and Fertility Awareness. I think all girls should be taught how to read and track their cycles and understand what is going on.

 

We learn about all the other biological systems in school, we shouldnt skip the reproductive parts for the girls especially. I think we are doing them a huge disservice by not teaching them about ALL parts of the physiology. 

 

This is a key point that I was makign earlier. An increased level of sexual education (including fertility awareness, which is of course a natural part of sex education) would be a very good thing to help decrease the nubmer of abortions. This is something that the Democratic party supports, but the GOP does not.

[PhuturePriest]

And if there was no more birth control, people would stop having sex? Did the pope say that too?

 

The Pope prophetically said that the more accessible and widespread birth control came, the more sexual and promiscuous people would become. He was 100% right. If people don't have birth control to have all the sex they want, they will start having less sex due to the fact that they don't want to have children.

[Isidore_of_Seville]

The Pope prophetically said that the more accessible and widespread birth control came, the more sexual and promiscuous people would become. He was 100% right. If people don't have birth control to have all the sex they want, they will start having less sex due to the fact that they don't want to have children.

 

There is absolutely no evidence to support the correlation and causality between those two things.

 

It's like saying that you're 80% more likely to get in a car accident when you're within 5 miles of your house. Well duh, that's where you drive 80% of the time!

 

When forming an argument you need evidence, otherwise you're just saying meaningless words.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Isidore_of_Seville

[PhuturePriest]

There is absolutely no evidence to support the correlation and causality between those two things.

 

It's like saying that you're 80% more likely to get in a car accident when you're within 5 miles of your house. Well duh, that's where you drive 80% of the time!

 

Between which two things?

 

Premarital sex became very popular after the pill came out. This is a fact.

[Isidore_of_Seville]

Between which two things?

 

Premarital sex became very popular after the pill came out. This is a fact.

 

It's a fact? Please show your work. The acceptance of pre-marital sex, sure. But the actual amount of pre-marital sex? I think you'd be hard pressed to find any evidence supporting that claim.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Isidore_of_Seville

[PhuturePriest]

It's a fact? Please show your work.

 

Look at the culture. In 1972, if you told your parents you were having premarital sex, more often than not you were scolded. Now we literally have parents giving teens condoms and birth control pills. We have schools that hand out condoms, we have movies that are incredibly sexual, and we have ads everywhere that show women with barely any clothes on.

 

Give me evidence that society now is not more sexually promiscuous than it was in 1972.

[Isidore_of_Seville]

Look at the culture. In 1972, if you told your parents you were having premarital sex, more often than not you were scolded. Now we literally have parents giving teens condoms and birth control pills. We have schools that hand out condoms, we have movies that are incredibly sexual, and we have ads everywhere that show women with barely any clothes on.

 

Give me evidence that society now is not more sexually promiscuous than it was in 1972.

 

Once again, the acceptance of pre-marital sex has changed, but that doesn't mean the actual amount has.

 

Of course it's impossible to deny that the world, especially the USA is far more oversexualized than it was in the 50s and before then. But to credit this solely to the introduction of birth control is just silly. The advertising industry holds almost all of the blame for that, not birth control pills.

 

Birth control pills don't put Beyonce on TV wearing next to nothing. So on and so on...

Edited April 2, 2014 by Isidore_of_Seville

[havok579257]

Well, first of all increased use of birth control definitely does NOT lead to more abortions.

 

But even if it were true, less birth control definitely would NOT lead to less pre-marital sex.

 

Once again it's about thinking critically and using logic and reason to determine a solution to the problem.

 

 

facts don't matter much to you, do they?

[CrossCuT]

Sex has been happening forever.

 

My favorite author Jane Austen even wrote about premarital sex. The difference in her time and ours is that a women found pregnant with a child out of wedlock was shunned from society.

 

 

Sex  happens with or without birth control.

[PhuturePriest]

Once again, the acceptance of pre-marital sex has changed, but that doesn't mean the actual amount has.

 

Of course it's impossible to deny that the world, especially the USA is far more oversexualized than it was in the 50s and before then. But to credit this solely to the introduction of birth control is just silly. The advertising industry holds almost all of the blame for that, not birth control pills.

 

Birth control pills don't put Beyonce on TV wearing next to nothing. So on and so on...

 

You're misunderstanding. Birth control doesn't put Beyonce on TV wearing nothing. But when women started using birth control en masse, premarital sex became very much a popular thing, and people began to flaunt it in their own lives and in the media. When people have all the promiscuous sex they want, they reduce their sexual partners to sexual play things. They dehumanize the other person and treat them as objects for their own pleasure. This made women commonly treated like objects, which is why now in ads and music videos, Beyonce provocatively lying naked in a bed is no big deal. She's fulfilling her role as the sexual object for men to gawk at and use for their own sexual urges.

 

I'm not blaming all of this solely on the pill. But the pill was certainly a very big reason for why things are the way they are today.

[Isidore_of_Seville]

facts don't matter much to you, do they?

 

They mean a lot to me! Can you please provide me with evidence that supports your claim so that it can be verified as a fact?

[PhuturePriest]

Sex has been happening forever.

 

My favorite author Jane Austen even wrote about premarital sex. The difference in her time and ours is that a women found pregnant with a child out of wedlock was shunned from society.

 

 

Sex  happens with or without birth control.

 

I can tell you that if I decided I wanted to have sex tomorrow, I wouldn't do it if I didn't have access to birth control. It's simple logic. Will there be some people stupid enough to have sex even if there is no birth control, despite the fact they don't want a baby? Yes. But they should face the consequences of their actions, not throw away the result because of their selfishness.

[Isidore_of_Seville]

You're misunderstanding. Birth control doesn't put Beyonce on TV wearing nothing. But when women started using birth control en masse, premarital sex became very much a popular thing, and people began to flaunt it in their own lives and in the media. When people have all the promiscuous sex they want, they reduce their sexual partners to sexual play things. They dehumanize the other person and treat them as objects for their own pleasure. This made women commonly treated like objects, which is why now in ads and music videos, Beyonce provocatively lying naked in a bed is no big deal. She's fulfilling her role as the sexual object for men to gawk at and use for their own sexual urges.

 

I'm not blaming all of this solely on the pill. But the pill was certainly a very big reason for why things are the way they are today.

 

Once again I must disagree and call to question your ability to rationalize correlation and causality. You see, women were being objectified long before the introduction of the pill. If anything, it is the oversexualition of women that spawned the demand for the pill, not the other way around.

 

[CrossCuT]

Beyonce provocatively lying naked in a bed is no big deal. She's fulfilling her role as the sexual object for men to gawk at and use for their own sexual urges.

Um, its a big deal to me and women everywhere who are tired of being viewed as objects.

I dont want Beyonce running around setting up some standard of smuttiness that men come to expect.

[PhuturePriest]

Um, its a big deal to me and women everywhere who are tired of being viewed as objects.

I dont want Beyonce running around setting up some standard of smuttiness that men come to expect.

 

I didn't mean it's not an actual big deal. I mean in the media and in mainstream culture, it's not a big deal. It's an everyday occurrence that isn't out of the ordinary in any sort of way.