New Obamacare Thread

[havok579257]

Just in case you're not open to skype, here is some proof, as you had requested.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#Before_Roe_v._Wade

 

As you'll notice, in the 30s, well before Roe v Wade, when Abortion was considered a felony in all states, an etimated 800,000 abortions were had each year. Compared to today's 1.2 million, that's not a very big jump in the course of almost 100 years, especially considering the fact that the total population went from 92 million to over 300 million in that same time span. Per capita, there are actually already less abortions now that it's legal than when it was illegal before Roe v Wade.

 

 

this is why wiki is only correct 94% of the time.  not your fault though.  their claim of 800,000 abortions a year is neither true or false.  anyone is unable to tell you how many abortions per year were performed prior to roe vs wade because of the fact that it was illegal.  the vast majority of abortions was not reported because they were illegal.  there is no  accurate data before roe vs wade on how many abortioins per year were performed.  everything before is a guess and not even a good one at that.  we actually don't know how many abortions were performed before roe vs wade and never will.  

 

so your claim that making abortion illegal will increase abortions is your opinion and has no actual facts to back it up.  since it was an illegal thing punishable by jail time, it was not reported and thus no actual numbers are there to back up your claim.  

[Isidore_of_Seville]

I'd also like to point out that YOU JUST ADMITTED THAT THE GREAT DEPRESSION CAUSED AN INCREASE IN THEN UMBER OF ABORTIONS, WHICH MEANS THAT THE LEGALITY OF ABORTIONS CLEARLY DOES NOT HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I've been nice this whole time but you guys seem either brainwashed or intentionally ignorant.

 

My invitation to talk about this over Skype is still open. So, unless you're too scared to be wrong, please take me up on the offer.

[PhuturePriest]

I'd also like to point out that YOU JUST ADMITTED THAT THE GREAT DEPRESSION CAUSED AN INCREASE IN THEN UMBER OF ABORTIONS, WHICH MEANS THAT THE LEGALITY OF ABORTIONS CLEARLY DOES NOT HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I've been nice this whole time but you guys seem either brainwashed or intentionally ignorant.

 

My invitation to talk about this over Skype is still open. So, unless you're too scared to be wrong, please take me up on the offer.

 

When have I ever said the legality of abortions affects the number of abortions? I have never said that once.

 

And you haven't been very nice. You've rather been very condescending quite a few times.

[NotreDame]

[havok579257]

 

 

thank you for this.  we only have number from when abortion was made legal.  anything else before is a guess with no proof to back it up.

[havok579257]

I'd also like to point out that YOU JUST ADMITTED THAT THE GREAT DEPRESSION CAUSED AN INCREASE IN THEN UMBER OF ABORTIONS, WHICH MEANS THAT THE LEGALITY OF ABORTIONS CLEARLY DOES NOT HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I've been nice this whole time but you guys seem either brainwashed or intentionally ignorant.

 

My invitation to talk about this over Skype is still open. So, unless you're too scared to be wrong, please take me up on the offer.

 

 

future priest never said anything about legality of abortions, that was me.  your having 2 completely different arguments here.  also you've been very condiscending.

[NotreDame]

The 1967 Abortion Act came into force on 27 April 1968, six months after receiving the Royal Assent.  The Figure below shows the annual totals of abortions for the last 37 years.  The number for that first year (23,641) relates to just 8 months.  Data for the first full year of abortions, namely 1969, show the wide-ranging effect of the Act as they shot up to 54,819.  For the next four years they soared almost linearly, to reach a peak of 167,149 in 1973

 

http://users.aber.ac.uk/jrl/abstat.htm

 

[NotreDame]

thank you for this.  we only have number from when abortion was made legal.  anything else before is a guess with no proof to back it up.

 

It doesn't necessarily matter what the numbers were before.  Assuming the stats are correct and comprehensive, the number of abortions clearly increase after legalization. 
 

[havok579257]

It doesn't necessarily matter what the numbers were before.  Assuming the stats are correct and comprehensive, the number of abortions clearly increase after legalization. 
 

 

 

your right.  thanks for finding the statistics for this.

[NotreDame]

Our Vice president, Joe Biden, is an anti-abortion democrat.

 

Pro choice is vastly different than pro abortion.

 

Biden, like Al Gore and others, may have been pro-life at one point in time.  He no longer is.  And from the Church's perspective, Pro-Choice and Pro-abortion are the same thing.

 

It's actually pretty easy to get a religious exemption from the HHS mandate, many have done so already. However if you turn to a republican backed news station for your information, you will (naturally) hear a different story.

 

No it's not, or have you not been paying attention to supreme court cases lately?

 

Pretty sure 7+ million more people with health insurance isn't a failure.

 

Actually, it's the 7 million that are making the law so unpopular since most of them had their previous coverage cancelled due to ACA regulations.

[God the Father]

The zerohedge article you linked is full of false and misrepresented information. 

 

And Boehner and his fellow tea party members certainly were in the wrong, I must ask, why is this group of people are working so hard to prevent people from getting healthcare? 

 

Uh, no it's not. It's a labyrinth getting through the linked op-ed blogs to the source material, but the quotes from Humana and eHealthInsurance are at the end of it.

 

Secondly, the morality of "preventing people from getting healthcare" is not the question I posed. I was curious what other people thought about Boehner's surrender over Obamacare--was it spineless capitulation to media pressure, or a shrewd maneuver in advance of midterm elections to allow the disaster to unfold, covered in his opponents' fingerprints? If it's the latter, is it fair to the people who are now bearing the weight of yet another state-sponsored ponzi on their shoulders?

[CrossCuT]

 unless you have a documented study

I would say the same to you FP. You have been presenting a lot of view points but nothing to back them up. If you are requiring Isidore to provide a documented study, why cant you?

 

so your saying you have no actual facts.  no actual numbers.  how about instead of connecting imaginary dots just lay out the facts.  show me the numbers of abortions in the united states per year before it was made legal and the current rate of abortions per year.  show me facts since your claiming making abortion illegal will increase abortion rates.  i mean if this is a proven fact, there must be evidence out there to support such a claim.  i patiently await these facts and numbers.

 

No, what he is saying is that he is tired. He has posted a lot of external links and sometimes these things are simply easier done on Skype.

No one else on this thread in the recent pages has even made a slight attempt at backing up their words with sources. Its easy to just run off your mouth, but please provide evidence for it. 

If I see evidence, I look at it with an objective mind as much as possible. 

[CrossCuT]

The last source that was linked from the opposition (not even related to the current topic) was by ND on page 3.

 

I would request FP to provide some evidence that the pill is the direct cause of an increase in promiscuity vs technology. He has cited nothing, just expressed his opinion. 

 

[PhuturePriest]

The last source that was linked from the opposition (not even related to the current topic) was by ND on page 3.

 

I would request FP to provide some evidence that the pill is the direct cause of an increase in promiscuity vs technology. He has cited nothing, just expressed his opinion. 

 

I have cited the culture. If you look at the culture, it gets more promiscuous and sexual.

[KnightofChrist]

Study Shows that Access to Cheap and Easy Contraception Increases Sexual Activity on College Campuses
By Michael J. New

In 2011 the University of Michigan’s Population Studies Center published a study (1) looking at how the cost of oral contraceptives impacted the sexual activity of college women. In 2005, the passage of the federal Deficit Reduction Act led to a sharp increase in the price of birth control pills at college health centers. The increase was dramatic as the cost of oral contraceptives went from between 5 to 10 dollars a month to between 30 and 50 dollars a month. The fact that the increase in the price of oral contraceptives was both unexpected and dramatic – made this an excellent natural experiment to analyze how the cost of contraceptives impacts contraceptive use specifically and sexual activity more broadly.

Survey data on contraceptive use and sexual activity was obtained from the National College Health Assessment (NCHA) and the National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG). The results indicated that increases in the cost of oral contraceptives reduced use of the birth control pill. Not surprisingly, this decrease in pill usage was even more dramatic among college women who lacked health insurance and among college women who had large credit card balances. The study also found that after the price of oral contraceptives increased – there were statistically significant decreases in both the frequency of sexual intercourse and the number of sex partners.

The fact the easy access to contraceptives increases the amount of sexual activity explains why programs to distribute or subsidize contraceptives often fail to reduce the unintended pregnancy rate. Even Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen co-authored a study (2) in 1996 which showed that easy access to oral contraception increased the amount of sexual activity – and might have resulted in increases in both the unintended pregnancy rate and the out-of-wedlock birth rate. Furthermore, even though contraceptive use has been increasing consistently over time – the unintended pregnancy rate has held relatively constant. Mainstream media pundits who complain pro-lifers need to become more contraception friendly should take a closer look at this and other studies.
 

 

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Source: http://www.catholicvote.org/study-shows-that-access-to-cheap-and-easy-contraception-increases-sexual-activity-on-college-campuses/
1: http://www.psc.isr.umich.edu/pubs/pdf/rr11-737.pdf
2: http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/1996/08/childrenfamilies-akerlof