reyb Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Reyb, You don't have, nor provided, anything more substantial, quantifiable, verifiable, or objective than what others have posted. All you have spouted is your own opinion and/or belief. Your diatribes are no more than what you point is wrong with what others have posted. Okay. Just for the sake of argument, let us consider whatever I posted here are just my own opinion. Can you now tell me what are these ‘opinions’ of mine that cannot be verified? I cannot agree with your above comment because, it is very clear that we can use the scriptures, the Internet and even our own common sense as our basis in verifying whatever ‘opinions’ I have. So, can you now tell me what are these particular opinions? Edited April 22, 2014 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Okay. Just for the sake of argument, let us consider whatever I posted here are just my own opinion. Can you now tell me what are these ‘opinions’ of mine that cannot be verified? I cannot agree with your above comment because, it is very clear that we can use the scriptures, the Internet and even our own common sense as our basis in verifying whatever ‘opinions’ I have. So, can you now tell me what are these particular opinions? You are using the same scripture and coming to a different conclusion. You posted: "Seek the truth from God himself and you will find it. " The Catholics and Christians here are claiming the same desire. But all (and you) believe the others are in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) I think you have to explain why these words are miracles (or miraculous). Because, many priest and pastors are really trying their best in showing that they are spirituality gifted in saying almost everything are miracles from God. They said, the rising of the sun is a miracle. How and why plants and trees grows is another miracle. Rain, sun, moon, oceans, rivers, mountains, all living things, man and animals....everything you can see are all miracles from God. When they wake up in the morning, when they fall sleep at night. When they got sick and healed..etc...everything and all things except disasters and bad things like murder, rape, wars...etc. I wish I can honestly ask them. Do they call brushing their teeth while taking a bath a kind of miracle too. Or when they make poo poo a kind of miracle too? So can you please explain why faith, love and hope are miracles? And another thing, what do you mean by ‘miracle healings of Cancer’? Are you saying a cancer patient was cured without any kind of medication except faith and prayers? Any spiritual gift from God is a miracle reyb, that's how i explain it simply because it is a gift from GOD. And natural creation is a kind of miracle as well because GOD created it, unsure what natural disasters are, there a mystery to me. And a tooth brush is to a miracle, there fabulous and add longevity to our teeth and reduce the pain of loosing teeth which is probably a consequence of sin, i honestly don't care what colour my teeth are though really, i don't go hard core with the whole teeth thing i just try and brush twice a day but half the time only manage once. And medicine is a miracle as well, but also yes there have been cases of diseases being cured without medicine. Edited April 23, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) You are using the same scripture and coming to a different conclusion. You posted: "Seek the truth from God himself and you will find it. " The Catholics and Christians here are claiming the same desire. But all (and you) believe the others are in error. I agree and have not said reyb is in error. Reyb you are wholeheartedly in faith, hope and love seeking the christ/saviour/messiah of God that you may help others better as are half or most christians including catholic christians, though people can get a personal relationship with jesus mixed up with personal salvation, we get saved that with the grace of god we may save and help others more better. All glory to GOD. Jesus is LORD. Edited April 23, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) You are using the same scripture and coming to a different conclusion. You posted: "Seek the truth from God himself and you will find it. " The Catholics and Christians here are claiming the same desire. But all (and you) believe the others are in error. Your observation is correct. Usually whenever a preacher is saying, ‘Seek the truth from God himself and you will find itâ€, it is almost the same as saying ‘Read the scripture and you will find what we believe is true and (therefore) from God’. It is some sort of convincing strategy that they are telling the truth. And since different persons see different interpretations to that one book, grouping is inevitable. Of course, Roman Catholic Church will not agree with this kind of observation because, she claimed, she is ‘The Church’ founded by Jesus Christ himself thru Peter and the rest are all ‘breakaway group’. Nonetheless, it is just a self proclaimed belief and an immaterial sentiment because schism was already present since the very beginning. Actually, Marionites (a Gnostic Christian) was the first to compose i.e. compiled what we now called New Testament and they honored different kind of Jesus (different from what I call historical Jesus Christ). (Goggle Marcion, Marcionites, Theudas, Gnostic). I am not saying you must be like a Gnostic Christian. This is not my intention to anyone who can hear me. When I said ‘Seek the Truth from God himself and you will find it’, I really mean what I meant. I am not simply saying ‘Read the scripture and you will find what we believe is true’. But actually, I am saying, ‘You must see Jesus Christ himself in the same way all God’s witnesses saw Him.’ Again, I am not saying you must see your historical Jesus Christ because I am not referring to that kind of Jesus. That Jesus (Or Ignatius’ Jesus) is a lie. There is no historical Jesus at all. But there is really another Jesus different from this historical Jesus. This is the Jesus you can (still) see even to this day because, He is the same, yesterday, today and forever (re: other Jesus please see 2 Cor 11:4). Now, re: others who are in error. Even if they are in error, it does not mean it is their intention, and even if they are wrong, they are still my brothers. Once they realize it then I will stop telling them to ‘seek the truth from God alone’. Edited April 23, 2014 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Any spiritual gift from God is a miracle reyb, that's how i explain it simply because it is a gift from GOD. And natural creation is a kind of miracle as well because GOD created it, unsure what natural disasters are, there a mystery to me. And a tooth brush is to a miracle, there fabulous and add longevity to our teeth and reduce the pain of loosing teeth which is probably a consequence of sin, i honestly don't care what colour my teeth are though really, i don't go hard core with the whole teeth thing i just try and brush twice a day but half the time only manage once. And medicine is a miracle as well, but also yes there have been cases of diseases being cured without medicine. I think you used the word ‘miracle’ not in its proper usage because, If everything are miracles from God and disasters and bad things are mysteries. What is reality then? Let us discuss your 'miracle healing' later because, if your claim is true then, tell your pastors or priests to go to all hospitals and give their prayers. And then, each and every patients in that hospital must be cured without any exception, whether a particular patient is a believer or not, because it is written (Rom 2:11) For God does not show favouritism’ and in Matt 5:43-48 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Now, if God gave the same blessing of ‘miraculous’ sunlight to evil and good person, and the same 'miraculous' raindrops to righteous and unrighteous; Then, each and everyone in that hospital must be cured of whatever kind of sicknesses they have because, the same 'miraculous' healing prayer was given by your priests or pastors to all of them. If your pastor or priest failed. Then, something is wrong with your God and your priest or pastor. (and also in you, if you continually believe in them). Anyway, Tab, the way you give thanks to God is already a good sign. I think, you are already in your 'ripe-age'. Do not worry too much. Okay? Edited April 23, 2014 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Thanks i do think to much. Bro/reyb i don't know why when it comes to miraculous healing without medical science that God grants these to some and the miracle of medicine to others, and some no miracle at all. Perhaps natural miracle is out of context if miracles ascertain only to healing of human beings but also need to say again and explain that faith,hope and love are miracles of healing of the interior and not the exterior, perhaps a better word for the natural world is a wonder, but still i believe it is a miracle gods earth, the first miracle,creation. But also miraculous as in usually our first concious contact with the presence of GOD, more than a thought though though it may have been also, an amazement, a wonder, a miracle, a place, a belonging. But I'm not the sort to say we should overly protect the natural world but nor am i one to say we should greedily/unconsciously abuse it. Edited April 23, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 Question to everyone: how do you deal with sometimes feeling "foolish" for believing in God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 What you just said, is precisely what I am talking about. Because, obviously you really wanted them to accept your religious beliefs, rather than to encourage them to seek the truth from God himself and find it. You are saying something like this. (That) You may or may not succeed in your endeavour but, you are trying to guide them to become good Christians as your Church commanded all of you. Hence, you are really trying to ‘correct, rebuke and encourage them with great patience and careful instruction’ so that they will become, not only morally upright Christians but also, strong in their faith who truly believe and accept Jesus Christ in their hearts. But you missed or intentionally dimissed a very important fact and that is, all your Church’s doctrines, teachings, moral laws, and others, including the historical existence of your wholeheartedly honoured Jesus Christ, are just ‘beliefs’ rather than truth and reality. Thus, I said, what you really wanted is their ‘conversion’ in accordance with your faith and belief. On the other hand, true witnesses like Apostle Paul will never do it. True witnesses do not seek converts because; they know too well that God alone can make a man like them - to become true witnesses of God. That God alone can reveal his Christ – for a man to become disciple of true Christ. That God alone can reveal his laws – for a man to become a judge of God’s righteousness. That God alone can reveal his words – for a man to become a caretaker of His words, and since everything about God is God. Therefore, God alone can reveal himself – so that man may truly realize who He is. Thus, true disciples of Jesus Christ are really trying their best to ‘correct, rebuke and encourage you with great patience and careful instruction’, so that you will learn to seek the truth from God himself, and eventually see the real Jesus Christ in the same way all God’s witnesses like Apostle Paul and Abraham saw Him. And then, you will become one with us, not because of human works and willingness but of God. This is the bottom line of true preaching. I am sorry Reyb, but I am completely confused by these responses. I am going to leave this to prayer for the time being. Now, you said you try ‘to rebuke and correct (us, who do not accept your kind of belief) with care and careful instruction’. Can you now explain to me ‘Why did Jesus Have to Die’? (Please see this topic and post your answer there) As thedude asked ‘Why did Christ have to die? Couldn't God have forgiven sins without this? I will look for this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) ASTRA, I usually pray and examine my concience. I am learning over time as i increase with hope in these that usually someone else has made me feel foolish and i need to pray for them, i have said something foolish or done something foolish and need to pray for myself and not my belief in GOD being the cause at all, though i feel that way and my thoughts tell me so. I stumbled over something that someone did to me many years ago and that i kind of bought on myself, that i had hid away in my subconscience that made me resentful towards women in general, and now i feel foolish for harbouring that resentment even though it was subconscience and not out of spite or deliberate so to speak and the enemy is crucifying me for it and trying to make me blame GOD, i believe it will heal in time now that the darkness has been bought to the light, i have offered this cross/burden up now and i already can feel the feelings of foolishness lifting. Of course there are always those present crosses that the enemy throws on my back, i'm learning the faster i give the cross to the holy one whom bears or my guilt, shame and remorse the yoke becomes easy to bear and my yoke illuminated. Something like that anyway bro in christ. :) Hope that helps, God bless you. All Glory to God. Jesus is LORD. Edited April 23, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Question to everyone: how do you deal with sometimes feeling "foolish" for believing in God? I personally look at the Cross and think to myself; "who has the greater feeling of foolishness? Me for believing in Him or Him for believing in me?" I know this seems kind of mean but it was one of the thoughts which lead to my conversion. One day I went into a church and sat down and looked at the Cross. I told Him he looked stupid and ridiculous. Then as I continued to sit there looking at Jesus on the cross, I noticed that the cross was a perfect symbol for a loving God to have. His very placement on the cross with His feet together and arms extended is the posture of someone who wants to receive you and embrace you. I thought to myself; "touche Jesus, touche". Edited April 23, 2014 by Credo in Deum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Question to everyone: how do you deal with sometimes feeling "foolish" for believing in God? No one is in a better position to answer that kind of question except the one who feels it. So, if you think you feel it that way, you can share it to us . Why you feel like being a fool in believing God? Nevertheless, some believer counteract such feeling of foolishness into a blessing and use the scripture to justify it . For example, they used 1Cor 1:20-25 (But the truth of the matter is, they will believe it anyway). Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. With due respect to Credo, let us hear him. I personally look at the Cross and think to myself; "who has the greater feeling of foolishness? Me for believing in Him or Him for believing in me?" I know this seems kind of mean but it was one of the thoughts which lead to my conversion. One day I went into a church and sat down and looked at the Cross. I told Him he looked stupid and ridiculous. Then as I continued to sit there looking at Jesus on the cross, I noticed that the cross was a perfect symbol for a loving God to have. His very placement on the cross with His feet together and arms extended is the posture of someone who wants to receive you and embrace you. I thought to myself; "touche Jesus, touche". Now, why you have a feeling of being a ‘fool’ when you look at that cross? Can you further elaborate your reason to us? (Because, you simply said 'he looked stupid and ridiculous'). Edited April 23, 2014 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) I am sorry Reyb, but I am completely confused by these responses. I am going to leave this to prayer for the time being. Please ask me about it and I will explain it further. Edited April 23, 2014 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 No one is in a better position to answer that kind of question except the one who feels it. So, if you think you feel it that way, you can share it to us . Why you feel like being a fool in believing God? Sometimes I feel like "smart" people don't believe in God and I feel like superstitious and "dumb" people do. I realize that is not true, at all. But it's how I feel sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Sometimes I feel like "smart" people don't believe in God and I feel like superstitious and "dumb" people do. I realize that is not true, at all. But it's how I feel sometimes. What you just said is not ‘foolishness in believing’ but, about ‘smart and dumb believer’. So, which is which you feel of yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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