Sternhauser Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='26 November 2009 - 02:46 PM' timestamp='1259261161' post='2009785'] Maybe, maybe not. Complicated, yes. Full of temptation, yes. Enormous potential to do real good in the world? Absolutely. [/quote] It would be an abortion of the principle of subsidiarity. Everything that needs to be done can be done on less than a world-government-level. Monopoly coercive power and goodness would not long remain compatible, even if they ever could be. ~Sternhauser Edited November 26, 2009 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='26 November 2009 - 12:48 PM' timestamp='1259261335' post='2009787'] It would be an abortion of the principle of subsidiarity. Everything that needs to be done can be done on less than a world-government-level. Monopoly coercive power and goodness would not long remain compatible, even if they ever could be. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Everything that needs to be done [i]is not[/i] done on any level though. The ideal would be for most, if not all decisions to be at the local or personal level, but as it is many decisions are either not made at all, or are forced to very wrong conclusions. What if power could be monopolized, things set straight, and then the monopoly forfeited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='26 November 2009 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1259261758' post='2009788'] Everything that needs to be done [i]is not[/i] done on any level though. The ideal would be for most, if not all decisions to be at the local or personal level, but as it is many decisions are either not made at all, or are forced to very wrong conclusions. What if power could be monopolized, things set straight, and then the monopoly forfeited? [/quote] Kind of like the "temporary" income tax? (Just to help fund the war. A temporary measure.) No, Nihil. Snowballs roll down hills and gather [i]more[/i] snow, not less. They become [i]more[/i] destructive, not less destructive. They only lose mass and momentum if they hit an unyielding rock, or it gets [i]very[/i] hot, [i]very[/i] quickly. ~Sternhauser Edited November 26, 2009 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='26 November 2009 - 12:58 PM' timestamp='1259261904' post='2009791'] Kind of like the "temporary" income tax? (Just to help fund the war. A temporary measure.) No, Nihil. Snowballs roll down hills and gather [i]more[/i] snow, not less. They become [i]more[/i] destructive, not less destructive. They only lose mass and momentum if they hit an unyielding rock, or it gets [i]really[/i] hot, [i]really[/i] quickly. ~Sternhauser [/quote] If you help me take over the world, I'll prove you wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='26 November 2009 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1259261992' post='2009793'] If you help me take over the world, I'll prove you wrong. [/quote] You'll prove fallen human nature wrong? It will not happen. The ring of Power needs to be thrown into a volcano. Everyone should merely keep their own small swords sharp. There's no elephant that can't be hacked apart by small people with small swords working together, if enough people believe in the goodness of the cause. A bigger man wielding a bigger sword will ultimately turn upon the small people, once he has lulled them into a sense of security. ~Sternhauser Edited November 26, 2009 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='26 November 2009 - 01:02 PM' timestamp='1259262151' post='2009794'] You'll prove fallen human nature wrong? It will not happen. The ring of Power needs to be thrown into a volcano. Everyone should merely keep their own small swords sharp. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Not that I prove fallen nature wrong; I prove the potential for goodness right. Then I throw the ring into the volcano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Come onnnnnnn, you totally want to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='26 November 2009 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1259262323' post='2009796'] Not that I prove fallen nature wrong; I prove the potential for goodness right. Then I throw the ring into the volcano. [/quote] If you really wanted to prove the potential for human goodness when faced with a monopoly of power, you would throw the Ring into the volcano [i]first[/i]. ~Sternhauser Edited November 26, 2009 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Come onnnnnnnnnnnn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='26 November 2009 - 01:59 PM' timestamp='1259261992' post='2009793'] If you help me take over the world, I'll prove you wrong. [/quote] I will join you. We can be co-equal consuls of the Republic of Athanasia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Now that's what I'm talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Sternhauser' date='26 November 2009 - 01:41 PM' timestamp='1259260877' post='2009779'] There isn't a person alive who would want to rule the world for unselfish reasons for more than 5 minutes. And no humble (ordered) man would take the job. ~Sternhauser [/quote] Someone needs to read Plato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sternhauser Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) [quote name='aalpha1989' date='26 November 2009 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1259265563' post='2009821'] Someone needs to read Plato. [/quote] Someone needs to read history, and see how many "philosopher-kings" have existed. How many are extant right now? Real winners like Barack Obama, Silvio Berlusconi, F.D.R., Santa Anna, Lincoln, George "it's not torture because we don't call it torture" Bush. Let's see more than a handful of people you'd call "philosopher-kings" in the real world, not Plato's cave. ~Sternhauser Edited November 26, 2009 by Sternhauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varg Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' date='06 June 2004 - 03:06 PM' timestamp='1086552376' post='211333'] who hates politics? i do i do monarchy is the natural state of government, we've just screwed it all up. who hates politics? i do i do simplicity makes me happy i wish everyone would just shut up. the end. [/quote] I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aalpha1989 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Sternhauser' date='26 November 2009 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1259267583' post='2009831'] Someone needs to read history, and see how many "philosopher-kings" have existed. How many are extant right now? Real winners like Barack Obama, Silvio Berlusconi, F.D.R., Santa Anna, Lincoln, George "it's not torture because we don't call it torture" Bush. Let's see more than a handful of people you'd call "philosopher-kings" in the real world, not Plato's cave. ~Sternhauser [/quote] The handful are all that are needed to prove that it is possible. The ideal should always be strived for, and the decadence of the masses is no excuse not to try. Your logic is not logic at all. Gandhi used the same reasoning to deny the Truth held in Christianity; "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." You cannot fight philosophic truths with the excuse that people do not heed said truths. In fact, people very rarely admit Truth. Edit: I obviously don't agree with everything Plato says, only much of what he says about the ideal ruler. Edited November 27, 2009 by aalpha1989 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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