Jesus' Divinity And An Idiot

[Fidei Defensor]

Just out of curiousity, and with all due respect, have you tried praying to Jesus and asking him to reveal the truth about himself to you?  Just wondering if your beliefs are based strictly on analysis of historical evidence or if any are derived from personal experience. 

It's been a long journey to where I am now.  I used to be a strong practicing Catholic. I was even contemplating seminary studies. But I have since fallen away and have expanded my knowledge of the world enough (not that religious people are stupid or unknowledgeable) that I changed my view and now believe there to be no god or anything supernatural.

[PhuturePriest]

It's been a long journey to where I am now.  I used to be a strong practicing Catholic. I was even contemplating seminary studies. But I have since fallen away and have expanded my knowledge of the world enough (not that religious people are stupid or unknowledgeable) that I changed my view and now believe there to be no god or anything supernatural.

 

If you don't mind me asking, with all this in mind, why did you start a novena to Saint Dymphna?

[Fidei Defensor]

If you don't mind me asking, with all this in mind, why did you start a novena to Saint Dymphna?

Despite my current beliefs, I am still open minded enough to know that there are things in the universe that are beyond our understanding.  I've been having a tough time lately with my crazy mind, and can always use help in any form.

[Golden Years]

It's been a long journey to where I am now.  I used to be a strong practicing Catholic. I was even contemplating seminary studies. But I have since fallen away and have expanded my knowledge of the world enough (not that religious people are stupid or unknowledgeable) that I changed my view and now believe there to be no god or anything supernatural.

 

Thank you for answering my question.  I can relate in a big way.   Feel free to PM me if you ever want to discuss.  Also I am a card-carrying member of the League of St. Dymphna, she rocks!

[Fidei Defensor]

Thank you for answering my question.  I can relate in a big way.   Feel free to PM me if you ever want to discuss.  Also I am a card-carrying member of the League of St. Dymphna, she rocks!

I just ordered a St. Dymphna medal with a cloth relic.

[RC Patriot]

 Not necessarily. If you look at how the Christian tradition changed from the Jewish one, the dropping of the many laws and such and instating rules based on love and kinship, it seems that whoever this Jesus was or brought about radical changes which some may have seen as attributes of the savior they were looking for.

 

I look at this as a question of the most plausible story.

I just tried thinking up a few other kinds of scenarios that could have occurred, but erased them all because none of them explained the data.

 

Traditions take time to develop. Rapid changes in tradition needs a focal event, something that motivates the drastic change. An unjust execution of a popular religious figure would spur change, but then there has to be a reason for the execution. No one's going to kill Mr. Rogers... the Teletubbies, maybe, but not Mr. Rogers... It could be an initial religious figure and his successors, but again, what would be gained from propagating such an unpopular message? Intense persecution, the passive resistance, the widespread conversion... No other scenario makes more sense than the story presented in the New testament. Not only that, but 2,000 years later, theologians are still discovering new connections between the Old and the New testaments.

I have to say, it's interesting talking to an atheist willing to explain his beliefs rather than get defensive. I suppose if you didn't like it, you wouldn't have joined a Catholic forum.

[Fidei Defensor]

I look at this as a question of the most plausible story.

I just tried thinking up a few other kinds of scenarios that could have occurred, but erased them all because none of them explained the data.

 

Traditions take time to develop. Rapid changes in tradition needs a focal event, something that motivates the drastic change. An unjust execution of a popular religious figure would spur change, but then there has to be a reason for the execution. No one's going to kill Mr. Rogers... the Teletubbies, maybe, but not Mr. Rogers... It could be an initial religious figure and his successors, but again, what would be gained from propagating such an unpopular message? Intense persecution, the passive resistance, the widespread conversion... No other scenario makes more sense than the story presented in the New testament. Not only that, but 2,000 years later, theologians are still discovering new connections between the Old and the New testaments.

I have to say, it's interesting talking to an atheist willing to explain his beliefs rather than get defensive. I suppose if you didn't like it, you wouldn't have joined a Catholic forum.

Oh I've been here for years :) But I am always happy to explain my thinking, revising as necessary the more I learn.

 

Perhaps there was a focal event. We don't know what it was for sure. And I see where you're coming from with the persecution and all. You're right, that doesn't make sense. That being said, most accounts of the early martyrs are based on tradition, so we have no way to know if the amount of persecution is being grossly overestimated.  By the time you get to happenings to Christians in the Roman empire, they were far enough removed from the original events surrounding Jesus that it's possible all they needed was hearsay and stories about the first Christians to strengthen their resolve.

 

That's where my comparison comes in. Like I said, if its possible for a human being to dedicate themselves to such disgusting ideas as the Nazis had, its certainly possible for Christians to be motivated enough by what turn out to be just stories.  Regardless, their faith is respectable.