Capitalism Is Perfect Or Not?

[Pliny]

There is nothing wrong with "outsourcing" jobs.

 

I do that myself.  I buy shoes instead of making them myself.

 

This conversation is not going to go anywhere, since you're stuck on hating and scapegoating the rich and making false claims about them "taking" tax money (that's what your do-gooder government buddies who also hate the rich do) and are not really discussing capitalism or a market economy.  Your ignorance of economic principles is profound, even to me who just knows the basics, but worse is your unwillingness to even consider them.

 

However, I'd be interested in what you would do to change things to make for a better economy.

 

 

[havok579257]

There is nothing wrong with "outsourcing" jobs.

 

I do that myself.  I buy shoes instead of making them myself.

 

This conversation is not going to go anywhere, since you're stuck on hating and scapegoating the rich and making false claims about them "taking" tax money (that's what your do-gooder government buddies who also hate the rich do) and are not really discussing capitalism or a market economy.  Your ignorance of economic principles is profound, even to me who just knows the basics, but worse is your unwillingness to even consider them.

 

However, I'd be interested in what you would do to change things to make for a better economy.

 

 

and here comes the classic republican speech.  if i don't agree with all the republicans say and demand then i must be for government intrustions.  everything is black and white to you republicans.  if someone doesn't agree with you call them a liberal or make stuff up about them being big government supporters.  i mean seriously, do you know anything?  the politicans are some of the rich people.  they cater to the rich.  why the heck do i support them?

 

as to outsourcing, i meant to other countries that ave no labor or child labor laws all the while taking american tax dollars for their business. 

 

in your mind is it right for a business to get tax payer money, then outsource jobs to 3rd world countries so they can pay workers and children next to nothing so they can make a bigger profit?  is it fair that an employer refuses to offer health insurance to employees because they claim it will close them down even though they enjoy record profits?  is it fair that an employer forces workers to do the job of 2 people while paying them the single salary and forcing their employee to work on his own personal time just so he can enjoy near record profits?  its it fair that a company will refuse to give its workers a raise sighting lack of funds but be more than happy to give the upper elite at the job thousand to million dollar bonus's?

 

capitalism does have some good to it.  not going to lie.  it also has a lot of bad to it.  it puts profits above the human person.  it makes money into a god.  it will sacrifice humanity for profits.  if it means crapping on human dignity to make a bigger profit, it will do it.  

[StMichael]

Firstly, it is the free market. I reject the term "capitalism" as that is what Marx called it.

 

Secondly, none of us have ever experienced true free markets, whether it is the statist (central government control) or the crony (government protection). 

 

Thirdly, we reap what we sow. It does not belong to the government, at least that is how we were established. The progressives never hid the fact that it was a progressive income tax, meant to punish those who succeed. Again, thou shalt not covet your neighbors goods. Our so-called leaders in DC are worth millions without ever having had a real job, from Nancy Pelosi to Charles Schumer to Boehner. If they don't succeed in DC, they become high paid lobbyists (Trent Lott, Christopher Dodd). 

 

There is no collective salvation. 

 

The government produces nothing. It creates nothing. It can only put up walls and take away from the private sector.

 

This isn't about right or left. It is about right or wrong. And we have been on the wrong path for over a century thanks to the progressive illness in both major parties.

 

 

[4588686]

We have a graduated income tax scheme.  The more you make the greater percentage you pay. It's not fair to those who have higher incomes, but that's the way it is.  Your claim is entirely bogus, unless you are considering investment returns to be "income" but that's a different matter, and their principal is at risk.

 

Define "rich" please.

 

And no, a price is a price.  The same economic principles guide the prices of labor as they do apples and computers.

 

What is hard to understand is in a discussion about free markets you obsess about "the rich" and discuss no other aspect of capitalism and fail to see or admit how greatly you are benefited by it;

 

 

You know, there are areas of economic models beyond Econ 101 that suggest that maybe things are a tiny bit more complicated than some of your posts would suggest.  A tiny bit.  

[NotreDame]

You know, there are areas of economic models beyond Econ 101 that suggest that maybe things are a tiny bit more complicated than some of your posts would suggest.  A tiny bit.  

 

Yeah, but we could apply this ^^^  to most of the posts on this thread...... Hey.... That's an idea.... Multiquote!
 

[4588686]

Yeah, but we could apply this ^^^  to most of the posts on this thread...... Hey.... That's an idea.... Multiquote!
 

 

 

Sure.  I guess I single out Pliny because I feel like he's particularly guilty of it.  I disagree with your posts here but I don't think they are just simplistically applying some ECON 101 idealized model on the world.

[ardillacid]

HASA NIS PERFECT

[NotreDame]

Sure.  I guess I single out Pliny because I feel like he's particularly guilty of it.

 

Or maybe it's cuz when you try to read Havok's posts they just sound like this... so you move on...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04
 

[Winchester]

Thank God for the non-profit public servants: http://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2014/03/12/cops-use-traffic-stops-to-seize-millions-from-drivers-never-charged-with-a-crime/

 

We're mercenaries.

[Winchester]

except is some cases it doesn't matter at all except to make bigger profits.  here is a perfect example that actually happened.  we will use walmart since i can't remember the name of the actual business.  so walmart resides in missouri.  kansas politicians agree to give them massive tax breaks and give them tax money to even cover the cost of building a new walmart in kansas.  so walmart agrees and moves to kansas.  the site of the new walmart is 5 miles from the missouri border.  its in kansas but it does absolutely nothing for the economy.  the same workers who worked in missouri commute an extra 2 minutes, so no new jobs are created.  the area does not gain any new merchandise since they still went to the walmart in missouri when it was 5 miles away.  they only thing kansas gets income tax from the workers at walmart.  the only problem is the tax breaks and tax money for the building and land outweigh the income tax the state will get.  the only thing that changes is the business owner makes more money.  so the average joe gains nothing and the rich business owner makes a bigger profit doing nothing for the economy.  

 

So people don't exchange money for goods they prefer? The business owner just gets money for nothing? That's odd. Normally it's the State that gets paid regardless of providing service or not.

[havok579257]

Firstly, it is the free market. I reject the term "capitalism" as that is what Marx called it.

 

Secondly, none of us have ever experienced true free markets, whether it is the statist (central government control) or the crony (government protection). 

 

Thirdly, we reap what we sow. It does not belong to the government, at least that is how we were established. The progressives never hid the fact that it was a progressive income tax, meant to punish those who succeed. Again, thou shalt not covet your neighbors goods. Our so-called leaders in DC are worth millions without ever having had a real job, from Nancy Pelosi to Charles Schumer to Boehner. If they don't succeed in DC, they become high paid lobbyists (Trent Lott, Christopher Dodd). 

 

There is no collective salvation. 

 

The government produces nothing. It creates nothing. It can only put up walls and take away from the private sector.

 

This isn't about right or left. It is about right or wrong. And we have been on the wrong path for over a century thanks to the progressive illness in both major parties.

 

the private sector is not good for every aspect of life.  having the private sector in a completely free market be in charge of emergency services  like fire department and ambulance service would be horrible.  

[havok579257]

So people don't exchange money for goods they prefer? The business owner just gets money for nothing? That's odd. Normally it's the State that gets paid regardless of providing service or not.

 

not in this instance.  the problem is the people don't exchange money for any more good than before.  the cronnie tea party republicans are the ones doing this at the detrament of the people.  cause they give business tax breaks and tax money for no more good than normal for the area but at the same time say they have to make cuts in services that help the blind or disabled because they lack money.  although they sure have enough money for tax breaks and tax money for big business.  

 

the issue again is the walmart gets all this tax money to move 5 miles.  so its not like a new business is added to the area.  its not like new permant jobs are created.  the business owner gets tax payer dollars.  the tea party rebulicans get kick backs through election money and the tax payer is left footing the bill and losing essential services for nothing.  cut to the disabled happen just so big business can get even more money.

[CrossCuT]

See like I said before, Capitalism/Freemarket/wathever is a great thing. I benefit from it, you benefit from it, we all benefit from it.

I dont neccesarily want to see a change in how it handles business etc.

 

But I think when it comes to more social things and keeping human dignity as a high priority as is important to Catholics, it does a bad job. I also believe that those who have undying, unflinching support of Capitalism tend to start viewing people in terms of those free market ideals. 

 

People no longer have God given dignity....they are now profit centers; they are pawns in a market. They have value so long as they produce a profit. 

 

I disagree with that mentality. I disagree with the idea of paying what a job is worth in the instances of McDonalds/Walmart and all those other huge companies when the workers ultimately suffer.

 

Capitalism is cool beans to me up until that point...up until we start diminishing human worth and caring for society as a whole. I believe that huge corporations that send their jobs overseas is also wrong because again...you are making the people HERE suffer by making the job markets stink...not only that but those companies no longer pay taxes on the same $$$ amounts and the SAME people suffer again.

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2014 by CrossCuT

[CrossCuT]

Capitalism is awesome for a lot of things like selling products etc, just not humanitarian things.

 

 

 

[havok579257]

Capitalism is amesome for a lot of things like selling products etc, just not humanitarian things.

 

 

 

 

everyone is a profit center.  if they don't have money to go to college, to bad.  a person comes 2nd to profits.