Capitalism Is Perfect Or Not?

[havok579257]

I did not want to derail a thread in the open mic and it seems philny wants to debate this topic, so I figured let's talk.  Is capitalism a perfect form of government and can it/will it create a utopian form of society?

[NotreDame]

 Is capitalism a perfect form of government and can it/will it create a utopian form of society?

First, capitalism isn't a form of government.

 

Second, no capitalists claim that capitalism will form a utopian society; it's only anti-capitalists that have ever laid claim to the keys to utopia.

 

So... Are you sure you understand enough on the subject to engage in, let alone initiate a debate on the subject?

 

[PhuturePriest]

There is no such thing as a perfect economic system, and that includes almighty capitalism.

[Luigi]

Capitalism is not perfect - far from it. It never has been. It never will be. It never can be.

 

But then, no economic system is perfect. It never has been. It never will be. It never can be.

 

Not as long as imperfect human beings are running it.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

viva la social security. viva la robin hood.

[Pliny]

I did not want to derail a thread in the open mic and it seems philny wants to debate this topic, so I figured let's talk.  Is capitalism a perfect form of government and can it/will it create a utopian form of society?

 

Capitalism can't work properly and fairly unless within the framework of just laws.  It's a not form of government, but as I see it, the right of people to freely trade with each other.

 

Anything the government does to control prices, such as putting a floor on wages, restricts this freedom to trade.  

 

I don't think it's perfect but I think it's the best we have in this fallen world.  

 

What would be a legitimate criticism of capitalism by the Pope?

[PhuturePriest]

Capitalism can't work properly and fairly unless within the framework of just laws.  It's a not form of government, but as I see it, the right of people to freely trade with each other.

 

Anything the government does to control prices, such as putting a floor on wages, restricts this freedom to trade.  

 

I don't think it's perfect but I think it's the best we have in this fallen world.  

 

What would be a legitimate criticism of capitalism by the Pope?

 

I think his criticism of trickle-down economics was spot on. I can't find the quote, but he said that people claim wealth is like a glass, and that it will get so full that it will overflow. The problem, he said, is that it never overflows, but rather the glass gets bigger and bigger, and the wealth never comes to the poor. The rich simply make more and more money and keep it to themselves, rather than one day becoming so rich that it goes out to others as well.

[Fidei Defensor]

Capitalism favors the rich and leaves the poor to get even poorer. That's why the Pope would have legitimate reason to criticize it.

 

[RC Patriot]

Critics who claim that Francis has attacked wealthy persons, or condemned capitalism, or dismissed the dignity of business as a vocation simply haven’t read “The Joy of the Gospel” with a listening heart.

http://catholicphilly.com/2013/12/think-tank/archbishop-chaput-column/a-listening-heart-and-the-joy-of-the-gospel/

[Pliny]

Capitalism favors the rich and leaves the poor to get even poorer. That's why the Pope would have legitimate reason to criticize it.

 

Capitalism is the reason our country is so rich it can feed our poor and the poor of other nations.

 

Do you have something more specific from the pope?

[PhuturePriest]

Capitalism is the reason our country is so rich it can feed our poor and the poor of other nations.

 

Do you have something more specific from the pope?

 

 

I think his criticism of trickle-down economics was spot on. I can't find the quote, but he said that people claim wealth is like a glass, and that it will get so full that it will overflow. The problem, he said, is that it never overflows, but rather the glass gets bigger and bigger, and the wealth never comes to the poor. The rich simply make more and more money and keep it to themselves, rather than one day becoming so rich that it goes out to others as well.

[Pliny]

I think his criticism of trickle-down economics was spot on. I can't find the quote, but he said that people claim wealth is like a glass, and that it will get so full that it will overflow. The problem, he said, is that it never overflows, but rather the glass gets bigger and bigger, and the wealth never comes to the poor. The rich simply make more and more money and keep it to themselves, rather than one day becoming so rich that it goes out to others as well.

 

Greed is an individual failing and not the fault of capitalism.

 

Those who have gotten rich because of enjoying the freedom of trade capitalism has enabled, have done so by providing products that increase our productivity and/or by providing goods and services at lower prices.  YOU are rich in the eyes of the world because you were lucky enough to be born into a capitalistic system (which is becoming more and more corrupted and inefficient by socialistic policies).

 

The rich don't make people poor, except in situations where the rich can prey upon the poor, which is not the case in a truly free market system in a country with good laws that are enforced.

 

Also, that imagery is fallacious in that "the rich" are not sitting on piles of money, but have invested it and own the means of production that provides jobs

 

Look at any super rich sports stars or entertainers. They are rich because their fans pay them well. They WANT to pay them and enjoy their talents.  A free market allows for the very best to rise to the top and so that millions can enjoy the very best at a nominal cost per person.  Are these entertainers robbing the poor?

[havok579257]

Capitalism is the reason our country is so rich it can feed our poor and the poor of other nations.

 

Do you have something more specific from the pope?

 

 

there in lies the problem.  the country we live in can feed the poor but it does not.  if it did their would be no starving children daily in this country.  capitalism is a great way to get rich but the money never seems to go to the poor.  it only goes to those who are not in need.

[Pliny]

there in lies the problem.  the country we live in can feed the poor but it does not.  if it did their would be no starving children daily in this country.  capitalism is a great way to get rich but the money never seems to go to the poor.  it only goes to those who are not in need.

 

In the other thread you said there are some specific things the Pope mentioned.  What are they or what is just one that is most important to you?

 

Note that because of capitalism children no longer need to work and we have much more leisure time than those just 100 years ago.  We ALL are more rich because of capitalism, including the poor.  You're only looking at "the rich" and not the rest of us who are also much better off because of this system.

 

And you are failing to look at the problem which so many often see as a solution, and that is that of government manipulation of the economy and a government that pays itself and its cronies handsomely.

[havok579257]

Greed is an individual failing and not the fault of capitalism.

 

Those who have gotten rich because of enjoying the freedom of trade capitalism has enabled, have done so by providing products that increase our productivity and/or by providing goods and services at lower prices.  YOU are rich in the eyes of the world because you were lucky enough to be born into a capitalistic system (which is becoming more and more corrupted and inefficient by socialistic policies).

 

The rich don't make people poor, except in situations where the rich can prey upon the poor, which is not the case in a truly free market system in a country with good laws that are enforced.

 

Also, that imagery is fallacious in that "the rich" are not sitting on piles of money, but have invested it and own the means of production that provides jobs

 

Look at any super rich sports stars or entertainers. They are rich because their fans pay them well. They WANT to pay them and enjoy their talents.  A free market allows for the very best to rise to the top and so that millions can enjoy the very best at a nominal cost per person.  Are these entertainers robbing the poor?

 

 

its weak to blame capitalist failings on so called socialist policies.  everyone brings up socialist policies but i don't know if people even know what real socialism looks like.  

 

also the rich do make people poor because get poor people's tax money for their business.  they get tax breaks left and right.  does the poor guy get a tax break?  does he get credit or a discount at the service the rich guy is providing since the poor man's tax money had to be given to the rich man because he of course could never start a business without all that tax money.

 

except sports are or have almost fazed out the lower to middle class of people.  the cost of going to 1 football game a year is pricing out the middle to low class.  not to mention sports owner have their own monopolies and can do what they want.  again loo at football.  they say if they don't sell out home games then those games will not be aired on tv.  well the cost of going to a home game with just gas, tickets, parking and little food prices out the middle to low class.  so not only does the nfl keep low to middle class people from seeing a game live but they also keep them from seeing the game on tv.  so i have no idea where you get nominal price from.  the nfl, nba, mlb, nhl and mls all have a monopoly and can do what they want to the people who are "forced" to give them money.  Nearly every stadium or arena gets some form of tax money, our money.  Something we have no choice over in a lot of instances but then are priced out of going to these places.