Mental Illness And God's Plan

[Ice_nine]

yeah I guess you could say I am suffering with depression, or even I'm clinically depressed. Or you could call it your black dog or be more literary with it.

 

I guess it's not really that interesting. I am on the other side of mental illness. (I was very fortunate in that the first medication I tried did the trick) so the phrasing seems off to me now but that's just probably an idiosyncratic thing. Thinking out loud I guess. forgive me!

[oremus1]

http://christianpsych.org/wp_scp/wp-content/uploads/paul-vitz-therese-of-lisieux-from-the-perspective-of-attachment-theology-and-separation-anxiety.pdf

This is an interesting psychological document examining the psychology  of St Therese of Liseux, and how she was disordered, but entered religious life which healed her psychological issues

[maximillion]

 

 

Lets put it this way, I have no problems being friends with a person who has adhd/depression.  But I would be VERY weary of spending the rest of my life in a relationship like that.

 

Well then don't get married, because the statistics indicate there is every chance that your partner (or you) will suffer some kind of MI at some point.

What are you going to do then, get divorced?

 

In addition, there is every likelihood you are already in relationship with several people who you are unaware have MI.

Because of stigma and unhelpful attitudes most people try to keep it hidden. If I was around you and knew you had this attitude I wouldn't exactly be rushing to tell you.

 

This IMO is no different from saying 'I don't mind being friends with a black person but I wouldn't want to marry one'.

 

None of us knows when we are going to be ill, none of us actively chooses this, and to make a statement saying one would not want to be in a relationship with someone like this indicates a pretty much pre-historic attitude and a lack of understanding as well as compassion.

 

Oh, so you would be in relationship with my friend but not with me.

Gee, thanks for the understanding.

[oremus1]

Can I ask - psychological assessments of religious life are not always required, and only address the clinical psychological elements of psychiatry and psychology. But what about the emotional/psychological aspect - this is not assessed. So in the case of St Therese above, she woudl have been very emotionally/psychologically disturbed and discerning the rleigious life. One but know that they are free to vow the evangelical councils, and as St Therese had no mental illness, she would have passed the screening. but how would she (or others like that) know they are freely entering the religious life, and not as a result of their emotiuonal/psychological issues impeding them from entering the vocation of marriage?

 

So like if there was a CV / nun candidate who had been abused as a child, with no mental illness or obvious problems, it is unlikely she would be screened out. but one cannot disregard that she might be emotionally imbalanced or fearful of matrimony. how can this be assessed?  she obviously cannot see a secular counsellor as they will think vowing celibacy, poverty or even believeing in God is very crazy. Could this be addressed in the internal forum by her SD?

I am also interested and concerned regarding the use of psychologists to bypass the correct protections around the internal forum

[oremus1]

also, quite a few priests who will not SD anyone with mental history.

(Just to be clear I have no mental issues or conditions, thank the Lord)

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

what is wrong with mental illness again? Great thinkers have helped establish the kingdom of God in there lives and the lives of others. Please consider/Respect. St Therese of liseux was a great thinker, so what? I was cured of my mental illness for about 6 years after returning to the bosom of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, but went back to my old ways, backslid, not fully back to my old ways therefore my mental illness is seemingly not as bad. Perhaps The way of st ignatious can be used here in respects to mental illnesses in that some receive that rod because of sin and some don't and sometimes a bit of both. Perhaps. It's not like i'm saying this is exactly how it is.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Ever heard of the term Divine Madness? I have heard it somewhere before but i can't remember where i heard it.

 

P.s. I missed the though at the end of my previous post, made it sound weird.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

also and sorry for the 3 posts in a row. I think there is a difference between mental illness and insanity.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Well then don't get married, because the statistics indicate there is every chance that your partner (or you) will suffer some kind of MI at some point.

What are you going to do then, get divorced?

 

In addition, there is every likelihood you are already in relationship with several people who you are unaware have MI.

Because of stigma and unhelpful attitudes most people try to keep it hidden. If I was around you and knew you had this attitude I wouldn't exactly be rushing to tell you.

 

This IMO is no different from saying 'I don't mind being friends with a black person but I wouldn't want to marry one'.

 

None of us knows when we are going to be ill, none of us actively chooses this, and to make a statement saying one would not want to be in a relationship with someone like this indicates a pretty much pre-historic attitude and a lack of understanding as well as compassion.

 

Oh, so you would be in relationship with my friend but not with me.

Gee, thanks for the understanding.

 

Well, ol' polskie has said that before, too, so...

[Ash Wednesday]

I have had depression off and on and an anxiety disorder for about 20 years now. I've been married, happily even, for over 5 years now and our relationship is just as strong as it was on our wedding day, if not stronger.

 

At times I lament how at times it weighs me down and robs me of my potential. But other times, it's been a gift, a cross I bear that has taught me compassion and has given me the chance to offer the sufferings for the sake of souls and everyone around me. It has also deepened my prayer life and has given me a lot of wisdom. 

 

No direct visions or contact with God, though. He knows I'd have too many questions. 

[Selah]

Well then don't get married, because the statistics indicate there is every chance that your partner (or you) will suffer some kind of MI at some point.

What are you going to do then, get divorced?

 

In addition, there is every likelihood you are already in relationship with several people who you are unaware have MI.

Because of stigma and unhelpful attitudes most people try to keep it hidden. If I was around you and knew you had this attitude I wouldn't exactly be rushing to tell you.

 

This IMO is no different from saying 'I don't mind being friends with a black person but I wouldn't want to marry one'.

 

None of us knows when we are going to be ill, none of us actively chooses this, and to make a statement saying one would not want to be in a relationship with someone like this indicates a pretty much pre-historic attitude and a lack of understanding as well as compassion.

 

Oh, so you would be in relationship with my friend but not with me.

Gee, thanks for the understanding.

 

That porksauce is a heartless troll is a fact we've pretty much accepted by now.

 

He thinks mentally ill people are to be treated like wounded animals and avoided. He's also said some awful things about women in the past, and has made some pretty racist comments.

 

Which means he thinks, because I suffer from depression, I am an animal who has no control over anything she does, and I can't function in society. 

 

People like him stigmatize mental illness, and people like him are the reason that those who have mental illness are looked at in such a negative light. 

 

He's just not worth it. 

Edited March 15, 2014 by Selah

[polskieserce]

Didn't think I would have to get started with this again, but here are my responses.

 

Well then don't get married, because the statistics indicate there is every chance that your partner (or you) will suffer some kind of MI at some point.

What are you going to do then, get divorced?

 

In addition, there is every likelihood you are already in relationship with several people who you are unaware have MI.

Because of stigma and unhelpful attitudes most people try to keep it hidden. If I was around you and knew you had this attitude I wouldn't exactly be rushing to tell you.

 

This IMO is no different from saying 'I don't mind being friends with a black person but I wouldn't want to marry one'.

 

None of us knows when we are going to be ill, none of us actively chooses this, and to make a statement saying one would not want to be in a relationship with someone like this indicates a pretty much pre-historic attitude and a lack of understanding as well as compassion.

 

Oh, so you would be in relationship with my friend but not with me.

Gee, thanks for the understanding.

 

There is a huge difference between a person who comes down with a mental illness later on in life and a person who has it early on and it just gets worse from there.  I would not get married to a person with issues that early on because it might just get worse from there.  I'm not saying it's guaranteed to get worse, because it's not.  But there is an elevated level of risk, and I'm not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk.

 

If a person's issues are that mild that I don't notice them, then I'm not really worried about the issue.  I agree that a lot of people try to hide it, but if it's severe enough to interfere with daily life, it usually comes out one way or another.

 

I have said that before, my response is posted in the 2nd quoted reply.

 

What's so pre-historic about my attitude?  My stance is based on several people I have seen in my own life.  It's not based off of views that other people passed on to me.  I have been harmed by people with mental illnesses.  It does not mean that all people with mental illnesses are going to make their spouse's life a living hell.  But there is an elevated level of risk with this group when it comes to relationships and I'm simply not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk when I can just find a different person and be taking less of a risk.  Even a few family members told me to not even bother if a girl has those types of issues.  Marriage is already a very risky proposition as is.

 

Well, ol' polskie has said that before, too, so...

 

Yes I have said that before.  I don't understand why you people make it seem like having physical attraction as a requirement is a sin.  I'm not physically attracted to black girls.  What else do you want me to say?  If you aren't physically attracted to a person, then there are no grounds for a relationship.  I already know someone is going to quote this statement and try to disprove me, but that's just plain ridiculous.  People want to have spouses they are attracted to.  All of my friends date within their own races as well, including my non-white friends.  Everyone in my family expects me to stay within the race as well.  Sure, inter-racial relationships are on the rise, but they are still a minority.

 

That porksauce is a heartless troll is a fact we've pretty much accepted by now.

 

He thinks mentally ill people are to be treated like wounded animals and avoided. He's also said some awful things about women in the past, and has made some pretty racist comments.

 

Which means he thinks, because I suffer from depression, I am an animal who has no control over anything she does, and I can't function in society. 

 

People like him stigmatize mental illness, and people like him are the reason that those who have mental illness are looked at in such a negative light. 

 

He's just not worth it. 

 

Before you call a person a troll, you should at least understand what a troll is.  These links should help.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToLm-uCStY

 

I don't make the statements I do to piss people off and laugh about it.  The things I posted are an accurate reflection of how I truly feel.  I don't think that mentally ill people are wild animals that can't control their actions.  What I think is that mentally ill people are a higher risk group of people.  Some people, such as myself, are more conservative risk takers who simply don't want to gamble more than we have to.

 

I am a critical thinker and I think for myself.  Part of the reason the virgin thread spiraled out of control was that people felt the need to bash me for not falling in line with their ideas on how I should go about relationships.  I look at things in terms of risk/reward analysis.  If I'm getting the tail end of the deal (in any life situation) I'm not afraid to say no way, even if it means going against what everyone else is doing.  People were quick to call me names and ridicule me, but they were not able to back up their arguments with hardcore facts.  And that is precisely why you are resorting to name calling right now....because you can't successfully take me down using facts and logical points.  If my only encounter with a mentally ill person had been seeing one of my friend's distant cousins at  party one time, you could successfully discredit me by saying my experience is too limited with the group.  However, I have extensive experience with this group of people, including a few in my own family.  I have dealt with some pretty nasty stuff from this group of people, and I have seen other people in my life have to put up with the same.  I used my own head to decide for myself, "you know what, it might be a bright idea to keep some space between myself and this group, and make decent mental health a requirement for a relationship".  I'm not going to write the summary for an autobiography, but I have already put up with too much in the past from these people to deal with it anymore.

[Fidei Defensor]

Didn't think I would have to get started with this again, but here are my responses.

 

 

There is a huge difference between a person who comes down with a mental illness later on in life and a person who has it early on and it just gets worse from there.  I would not get married to a person with issues that early on because it might just get worse from there.  I'm not saying it's guaranteed to get worse, because it's not.  But there is an elevated level of risk, and I'm not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk.

 

If a person's issues are that mild that I don't notice them, then I'm not really worried about the issue.  I agree that a lot of people try to hide it, but if it's severe enough to interfere with daily life, it usually comes out one way or another.

 

I have said that before, my response is posted in the 2nd quoted reply.

 

What's so pre-historic about my attitude?  My stance is based on several people I have seen in my own life.  It's not based off of views that other people passed on to me.  I have been harmed by people with mental illnesses.  It does not mean that all people with mental illnesses are going to make their spouse's life a living hell.  But there is an elevated level of risk with this group when it comes to relationships and I'm simply not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk when I can just find a different person and be taking less of a risk.  Even a few family members told me to not even bother if a girl has those types of issues.  Marriage is already a very risky proposition as is.

 

 

Yes I have said that before.  I don't understand why you people make it seem like having physical attraction as a requirement is a sin.  I'm not physically attracted to black girls.  What else do you want me to say?  If you aren't physically attracted to a person, then there are no grounds for a relationship.  I already know someone is going to quote this statement and try to disprove me, but that's just plain ridiculous.  People want to have spouses they are attracted to.  All of my friends date within their own races as well, including my non-white friends.  Everyone in my family expects me to stay within the race as well.  Sure, inter-racial relationships are on the rise, but they are still a minority.

 

 

Before you call a person a troll, you should at least understand what a troll is.  These links should help.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToLm-uCStY

 

I don't make the statements I do to piss people off and laugh about it.  The things I posted are an accurate reflection of how I truly feel.  I don't think that mentally ill people are wild animals that can't control their actions.  What I think is that mentally ill people are a higher risk group of people.  Some people, such as myself, are more conservative risk takers who simply don't want to gamble more than we have to.

 

I am a critical thinker and I think for myself.  Part of the reason the virgin thread spiraled out of control was that people felt the need to bash me for not falling in line with their ideas on how I should go about relationships.  I look at things in terms of risk/reward analysis.  If I'm getting the tail end of the deal (in any life situation) I'm not afraid to say no way, even if it means going against what everyone else is doing.  People were quick to call me names and ridicule me, but they were not able to back up their arguments with hardcore facts.  And that is precisely why you are resorting to name calling right now....because you can't successfully take me down using facts and logical points.  If my only encounter with a mentally ill person had been seeing one of my friend's distant cousins at  party one time, you could successfully discredit me by saying my experience is too limited with the group.  However, I have extensive experience with this group of people, including a few in my own family.  I have dealt with some pretty nasty stuff from this group of people, and I have seen other people in my life have to put up with the same.  I used my own head to decide for myself, "you know what, it might be a bright idea to keep some space between myself and this group, and make decent mental health a requirement for a relationship".  I'm not going to write the summary for an autobiography, but I have already put up with too much in the past from these people to deal with it anymore.

Love thy neighbor as thyself. It doesn't just mean be nice to them. It means understanding that the human condition encompasses everything that humans experience, including mental illness. We're not defective, we're just like you; the only difference is, we're afflicted by an illness that happens to reside in the brain. If you're going to discount us as unstable, make sure to include heart patients, diabetics, those with cancer, and anyone else with illness. No need to be limited to one particular kind of illness.

Edited March 17, 2014 by tardis ad astra

[Selah]

Didn't think I would have to get started with this again, but here are my responses.

 

 

There is a huge difference between a person who comes down with a mental illness later on in life and a person who has it early on and it just gets worse from there.  I would not get married to a person with issues that early on because it might just get worse from there.  I'm not saying it's guaranteed to get worse, because it's not.  But there is an elevated level of risk, and I'm not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk.

 

If a person's issues are that mild that I don't notice them, then I'm not really worried about the issue.  I agree that a lot of people try to hide it, but if it's severe enough to interfere with daily life, it usually comes out one way or another.

 

I have said that before, my response is posted in the 2nd quoted reply.

 

What's so pre-historic about my attitude?  My stance is based on several people I have seen in my own life.  It's not based off of views that other people passed on to me.  I have been harmed by people with mental illnesses.  It does not mean that all people with mental illnesses are going to make their spouse's life a living hell.  But there is an elevated level of risk with this group when it comes to relationships and I'm simply not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk when I can just find a different person and be taking less of a risk.  Even a few family members told me to not even bother if a girl has those types of issues.  Marriage is already a very risky proposition as is.

 

 

Yes I have said that before.  I don't understand why you people make it seem like having physical attraction as a requirement is a sin.  I'm not physically attracted to black girls.  What else do you want me to say?  If you aren't physically attracted to a person, then there are no grounds for a relationship.  I already know someone is going to quote this statement and try to disprove me, but that's just plain ridiculous.  People want to have spouses they are attracted to.  All of my friends date within their own races as well, including my non-white friends.  Everyone in my family expects me to stay within the race as well.  Sure, inter-racial relationships are on the rise, but they are still a minority.

 

 

Before you call a person a troll, you should at least understand what a troll is.  These links should help.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToLm-uCStY

 

I don't make the statements I do to piss people off and laugh about it.  The things I posted are an accurate reflection of how I truly feel.  I don't think that mentally ill people are wild animals that can't control their actions.  What I think is that mentally ill people are a higher risk group of people.  Some people, such as myself, are more conservative risk takers who simply don't want to gamble more than we have to.

 

I am a critical thinker and I think for myself.  Part of the reason the virgin thread spiraled out of control was that people felt the need to bash me for not falling in line with their ideas on how I should go about relationships.  I look at things in terms of risk/reward analysis.  If I'm getting the tail end of the deal (in any life situation) I'm not afraid to say no way, even if it means going against what everyone else is doing.  People were quick to call me names and ridicule me, but they were not able to back up their arguments with hardcore facts.  And that is precisely why you are resorting to name calling right now....because you can't successfully take me down using facts and logical points.  If my only encounter with a mentally ill person had been seeing one of my friend's distant cousins at  party one time, you could successfully discredit me by saying my experience is too limited with the group.  However, I have extensive experience with this group of people, including a few in my own family.  I have dealt with some pretty nasty stuff from this group of people, and I have seen other people in my life have to put up with the same.  I used my own head to decide for myself, "you know what, it might be a bright idea to keep some space between myself and this group, and make decent mental health a requirement for a relationship".  I'm not going to write the summary for an autobiography, but I have already put up with too much in the past from these people to deal with it anymore.

 

 

 

Your lack of compassion is what strikes me as the most disturbing. I did not ask for depression, yet you treat me as less than human because I have depression. 

Edited March 17, 2014 by Selah

[OnlySunshine]

Didn't think I would have to get started with this again, but here are my responses.

 

 

There is a huge difference between a person who comes down with a mental illness later on in life and a person who has it early on and it just gets worse from there.  I would not get married to a person with issues that early on because it might just get worse from there.  I'm not saying it's guaranteed to get worse, because it's not.  But there is an elevated level of risk, and I'm not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk.

 

If a person's issues are that mild that I don't notice them, then I'm not really worried about the issue.  I agree that a lot of people try to hide it, but if it's severe enough to interfere with daily life, it usually comes out one way or another.

 

I have said that before, my response is posted in the 2nd quoted reply.

 

What's so pre-historic about my attitude?  My stance is based on several people I have seen in my own life.  It's not based off of views that other people passed on to me.  I have been harmed by people with mental illnesses.  It does not mean that all people with mental illnesses are going to make their spouse's life a living hell.  But there is an elevated level of risk with this group when it comes to relationships and I'm simply not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk when I can just find a different person and be taking less of a risk.  Even a few family members told me to not even bother if a girl has those types of issues.  Marriage is already a very risky proposition as is.

 

 

Yes I have said that before.  I don't understand why you people make it seem like having physical attraction as a requirement is a sin.  I'm not physically attracted to black girls.  What else do you want me to say?  If you aren't physically attracted to a person, then there are no grounds for a relationship.  I already know someone is going to quote this statement and try to disprove me, but that's just plain ridiculous.  People want to have spouses they are attracted to.  All of my friends date within their own races as well, including my non-white friends.  Everyone in my family expects me to stay within the race as well.  Sure, inter-racial relationships are on the rise, but they are still a minority.

 

 

Before you call a person a troll, you should at least understand what a troll is.  These links should help.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToLm-uCStY

 

I don't make the statements I do to piss people off and laugh about it.  The things I posted are an accurate reflection of how I truly feel.  I don't think that mentally ill people are wild animals that can't control their actions.  What I think is that mentally ill people are a higher risk group of people.  Some people, such as myself, are more conservative risk takers who simply don't want to gamble more than we have to.

 

I am a critical thinker and I think for myself.  Part of the reason the virgin thread spiraled out of control was that people felt the need to bash me for not falling in line with their ideas on how I should go about relationships.  I look at things in terms of risk/reward analysis.  If I'm getting the tail end of the deal (in any life situation) I'm not afraid to say no way, even if it means going against what everyone else is doing.  People were quick to call me names and ridicule me, but they were not able to back up their arguments with hardcore facts.  And that is precisely why you are resorting to name calling right now....because you can't successfully take me down using facts and logical points.  If my only encounter with a mentally ill person had been seeing one of my friend's distant cousins at  party one time, you could successfully discredit me by saying my experience is too limited with the group.  However, I have extensive experience with this group of people, including a few in my own family.  I have dealt with some pretty nasty stuff from this group of people, and I have seen other people in my life have to put up with the same.  I used my own head to decide for myself, "you know what, it might be a bright idea to keep some space between myself and this group, and make decent mental health a requirement for a relationship".  I'm not going to write the summary for an autobiography, but I have already put up with too much in the past from these people to deal with it anymore.

 

tardis hit the nail on the head.  Just because you don't like the idea of mental disorders because it's risky, it doesn't mean that you won't end up with a so-called risky individual.  You cannot know everything about an individual's life.  There are some things that are best left in the confessional.  If God can heal and forgive, then we are called to do the same.  For whatever reason, some people have mental disorders.  They did not choose these disorders (I know I did not chose mine).   To totally discount ANYONE because of a disorder they weren't able to acquire or get rid of on their own will is illogical.  I cannot believe that one or a few interactions you had with those who had mental illnesses means you won't ever willfully be in a relationship with another person again.  I, personally, would not want to be with someone like yourself who believes himself to be somehow above those who have psychological problems when they didn't have a choice in the matter...

 

One last thing.  True love is about taking risks.  You may completely pass by the person God has chosen you to be with simply because of a medical diagnosis.  You are not above God and are taking serious risks with your vocation.