Basilisa Marie Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I think a big part of the reason why we all feel like we have to love the pope is that a sort of cult of personality has built up around the pope, starting with John XXIII, but really solidified with John Paul II. And who can blame us - JPII was incredibly charismatic, and a pope for a long, long time. I remember a TON of "JPII WE LOVE YOU" stuff when I was in youth group, and a lot of us who grew up with a lot of "I LOVE THE POPE SO HARD" culture are now adults and have now dealt with at least one pope who kind of rubbed us a weird way, whether it be Benedict or Francis. Even if you didn't personally grow up with it, or are a convert, it's still in the water. The cult of personality isn't necessarily a bad thing at all, it's neutral. But moving away from the cult of personality isn't easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 JPII was incredibly charismatic, and a pope for a long, long time. I remember a TON of "JPII WE LOVE YOU" Yup. In summer bible school we sand a song called "JPII We love you" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I don't hate him. He just doesn't sit well with me. I respect his office and love him as a Christian brother. But I don't think I have to like him. I'm keeping my mind open however and I hope he opens his mind to a having a more sophisticated understanding of economic principles. I haven't equated capitalism with utopia. You said he had valid points against capitalism and I'd like to know what one would be. If I start a thread about it will you contribute? if you start a topic in debate i will contribute. u have a beef just remeber like someone else mentioned, pope Francis is far from the first pope to criticism capitalism. if you have a beef with Francis over his comments, you must also have issues with other recent popes and what they said about capitalism. Do you have issues with other popes? If not, then maybe its not the popes comments you have an issue with but just anything Francis says bothers you for some reason. Just a possiblity maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 if you start a topic in debate i will contribute. u have a beef just remeber like someone else mentioned, pope Francis is far from the first pope to criticism capitalism. if you have a beef with Francis over his comments, you must also have issues with other recent popes and what they said about capitalism. Do you have issues with other popes? If not, then maybe its not the popes comments you have an issue with but just anything Francis says bothers you for some reason. Just a possiblity maybe. Pliny, if posts like this make you want to talk about the capitalism thing, just go to the whole "I cringe when..." thread again. There's some unfinished business there anyway. Pleeeease don't start another thread on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 About this pope... I don't like the fact that his humility is so incredibly ostentatious that everyone is talking about it and running magazine covers proclaiming it. It leaves me a little uneasy, like when movie stars adopt kids from Africa... Just not sure the intentions. I also don't like the fact that people are liking him for all the wrong reasons. You can look through the following research: http://www.pewforum.org/2014/03/06/catholics-view-pope-francis-as-a-change-for-the-better/ At a high level it's saying that people are happier about the Pope, but that's primarily because they think he'll change church teaching. He has not increased the number identifying as Catholic, frequency of mass or confession one bit - if anything mass or confession have dipped: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 About this pope... I don't like the fact that his humility is so incredibly ostentatious that everyone is talking about it and running magazine covers proclaiming it. Is that his fault? Im not sure the Pope can control who the media and people react to him or what they do and dont run in their magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 We all handle grief differently. When my Dad was in his coffin, I placed a stack of old cards in his suit coat. When digging out stuff to take to the mortuary, I found in his bottom sock drawer every Father's Day or thanksgiving, etc. card I had ever given him. I thought that he'd kept them for 20 years so he might want to keep them forever. Then I spent the next several weeks sleeping on a deserted beach. Do you really think this priest would care that his rosary cross was taken? I kept my Dad's rosary. It didn't even make it to his casket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Is that his fault? Im not sure the Pope can control who the media and people react to him or what they do and dont run in their magazines. If you remember, he did a lot of things to separate himself from the office that were quite obvious and viewed as being humble, when the net effect was the opposite. The biggest act of humility is to willingly give up power. Christ did it in becoming man. To an infinitely lesser extent, Benedict did it by resigning as Pope. There are very, very, very few remaining examples. But wear black shoes and choose a private apartment (after lobbying for the position)? Wow! So humble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancilla Domini Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 The biggest act of humility is to willingly give up power. Christ did it in becoming man. To an infinitely lesser extent, Benedict did it by resigning as Pope. There are very, very, very few remaining examples. But wear black shoes and choose a private apartment (after lobbying for the position)? Wow! So humble! Another pope (I believe it was Pius XII but the name escapes me at the moment) lived in the papal palace, but slept on the floor. This, I believe, is a more humble action than refusing to live in the papal palace and having a simple private apartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 If you remember, he did a lot of things to separate himself from the office that were quite obvious and viewed as being humble, when the net effect was the opposite. The biggest act of humility is to willingly give up power. Christ did it in becoming man. To an infinitely lesser extent, Benedict did it by resigning as Pope. There are very, very, very few remaining examples. But wear black shoes and choose a private apartment (after lobbying for the position)? Wow! So humble! i think this is completely unfair. So now people get upset because the pope is to humble. Having a humble pope is no a bad thing. To imply he is not being altruistic in his humbleness is absolutely wrong on your part unless you have evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Another pope (I believe it was Pius XII but the name escapes me at the moment) lived in the papal palace, but slept on the floor. This, I believe, is a more humble action than refusing to live in the papal palace and having a simple private apartment. more humble in your opinion but not everyone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Are we really having a humble contest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I live in a crappy apartment. I am clearly the most humble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Another pope (I believe it was Pius XII but the name escapes me at the moment) lived in the papal palace, but slept on the floor. This, I believe, is a more humble action than refusing to live in the papal palace and having a simple private apartment. So now we get to judge what's truly humble or more humble? I like Pope Francis. He sometimes says incredibly regrettable things and does something I can't defend (Like writing a foreword in a pro-liberation theology book), but I think he's a genuinely good person who is very humble. I don't think he's quite used to being the Pope yet, and I think soon enough he'll straighten out and hopefully not do or say regrettable things (Think telling the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate that they can no longer say the Latin Mass. Huge no-no for me). If he doesn't, the Church will live. If we can survive Popes like Borgia. we can survive a humble man who I believe is honestly doing everything in his power for the good of the Church. Do I agree with everything he is doing? No. Do I think telling a huge community that they can no longer say the Latin Mass was a good thing? No (I'm a Novus Ordo man, for the record). But I'm not the Pope. Unless he says something blatantly heretical like stating Jesus was a woman, it's not for me to judge his actions and statements, because I've never done and hopefully will never do his job. One thing I completely agree with him on is his critique of capitalism. People in America preach capitalism like it's a religion, and they're offended by the suggestion that it's not perfect and easily corruptible. But to each his own about that. In all, he's a very good man. I don't agree with everything he says and does, but I still love him, and you'd better believe I would be jumping up down and screaming like a schoolgirl if I was about to meet him. Edited March 7, 2014 by FuturePriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not The Philosopher Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I live in a crappy apartment. I am clearly the most humble. I live in my dad's basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now