Controversy At Fisher More College

[NotreDame]

For me he did not get close to the heart of the matter, as he promised, rather he just trashed his former co-workers and previous place of employment.

No, he didn't trash former co-workers, he provided a motive for why the president may doing this: To distract from his poor financial deals that were hobbling the school and provide an excuse for what many say is the inevitable financial collapse.

 

A motive is extremely relevant be it in journalism or in court.  It's not gossip, it's not "trashing", it's a required part of any story or case. 

 

The local DFW Trads aren't even supporting this Michael King guy, so now anyone who supports him (Rorate included) is just going to lose credibility when the truth continues to come out.

 

Seriously, this is why you trads keep losing to the liberals, because you don't know how to argue or how to pick your battles.  The liberals, on the other hand, have learned from the marxists in this area and wouldn't make the same mistakes.

Edited March 5, 2014 by NotreDame

[KnightofChrist]

This is a radical hypothetical since Eastern Rite schools would not be under a Roman Rite Bishop, but let's say there was an Eastern Rite school and the head of the school was talking about joining the orthodox....
 
In that case I'd expect my Bishop to do something to get the president in line.  I've had Ukranian priests that were bi-ritual (eastern and novus ordo) and had a Roman priest running one Byzantine Parish I served at for many years, so in absence of an Eastern Rite Catholic priest, I'd prefer Novus Ordo in an emergency to the Orthodox and I don't believe it would freak anyone out.

Yeah, it is a big what if, but perhaps your view point would change and be closer to those who are deeply concerned about the Bishop forbidding the EF, if for the last number of decades your Rite had been attacked, condemned and forbidden by many Latin Bishops, and it got so bad that the Pope under great opposition and to forbid Latin Rite Bishop from forbidding your Rite, and then have those same bishops ignore or put down the Pope.

 

Well, then just don't have an opinion until more evidence comes out, because right now Mr Marshall is the only person with direct knowledge who is speaking out publicly (not border-line gossip, but a journalistic primary source.)   If you don't want to believe him, then you are left with a very incomplete story that isn't sufficient to arrive at any conclusions.
 
(Note that some of the other local bloggers are also giving their own opinions and sharing inside knowledge, though one is doing so under his blogging pseudonymn.)

No, as I stated before I've read the rumors, and I believe even if the rumors are true it does not justify the Bishop from banning the EF for the whole school. I fear this will be a tactic of other Bishops, and there are in fact many Bishops who still, to put it lightly do not like the EF with a very strong passion. My fear is that other Bishops will find reasons like this to find loopholes or workarounds to Summorum Pontificum. And that each time it happens we will all be caught in a causality loop taking the same positions, making the same argues for or against until the Summorum Pontificum is basically void of all authority and meaning. Edited March 5, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[mortify ii]

Denying the student body the Latin mass because of some supposed issues with the president is not just in my opinion. You never see this happening on the other side of the fence, like the many progressive colleges that bear a Catholic name and are full of administrators and teachers against the Faith. The point is what the President did or believes is a non issue here, and once again traditional Catholics face harsh restrictions not set on others.

[blazeingstar]

Yeah, it is a big what if, but perhaps your view point would change and be closer to those who are deeply concerned about the Bishop forbidding the EF, if for the last number of decades your Rite had been attacked, condemned and forbidden by many Latin Bishops, and it got so bad that the Pope under great opposition and to forbid Latin Rite Bishop from forbidding your Rite, and then have those same bishops ignore or put down the Pope.

 

No, as I stated before I've read the rumors, and I believe even if the rumors are true it does not justify the Bishop from banning the EF for the whole school. I fear this will be a tactic of other Bishops, and there are in fact many Bishops who still, to put it lightly do not like the EF with a very strong passion. My fear is that other Bishops will find reasons like this to find loopholes or workarounds to Summorum Pontificum. And that each time it happens we will all be caught in a causality loop taking the same potions, making the same argues for or against until the Summorum Pontificum is basically void of all authority and meaning.

 

But the Bishop didn't "ban" the Mass, but has offered students and staff a reasonable alternative at a local church if they'd like to attend OF.  Regardless of rumors it appears that there is something VERY wrong going on....and not with the Bishop.

 

The evidence is that there are no active priests who are in good standing willing to even celebrate EF there.  Masses can never be removed from the schedule without consult of the Bishop and other people.  Therefore, the Bishop has offered the solution of the OF.

 

He has a right to close the entire school, which he did not.

[KnightofChrist]

No, he didn't trash former co-workers, he provided a motive for why the president may doing this: To distract from his poor financial deals that were hobbling the school and provide an excuse for what many say is the inevitable financial collapse.mistakes.

A motive is extremely relevant be it in journalism or in court. It's not gossip, it's not "trashing", it's a required part of any story or case.

 
I guess it's true then one man's trash is another mans treasure.

The local DFW Trads aren't even supporting this Michael King guy, so now anyone who supports him (Rorate included) is just going to lose credibility when the truth continues to come out.

I'm not really even supporting Mr. King, I have much greater concern for the students being punished for what Mr. King is accused of committing.

Seriously, this is why you trads keep losing to the liberals, because you don't know how to argue or how to pick your battles.  The liberals, on the other hand, have learned from the marxists in this area and wouldn't make the same mistakes.

You trads? That's nice.

[KnightofChrist]

Denying the student body the Latin mass because of some supposed issues with the president is not just in my opinion. You never see this happening on the other side of the fence, like the many progressive colleges that bear a Catholic name and are full of administrators and teachers against the Faith. The point is what the President did or believes is a non issue here, and once again traditional Catholics face harsh restrictions not set on others.

And what ever Mr. King is accused of and what ever he may actually be guilty of I seriously doubt it is anywhere as bad as many presidents and officials of so-called Catholic Colleges who support the mass-murder of children.

[NotreDame]

Denying the student body the Latin mass because of some supposed issues with the president is not just in my opinion. You never see this happening on the other side of the fence, like the many progressive colleges that bear a Catholic name and are full of administrators and teachers against the Faith. The point is what the President did or believes is a non issue here, and once again traditional Catholics face harsh restrictions not set on others.

See, here is the thing though, Mortify... It's not clear that there was an approved priest that wanted to say the EF there.  We also don't know want went on... perhaps the locals, the former chancellor, former professors, and former students were asking the Bishop to intervene.  It may not have even been the first action to bring him in line... there could have been other actions that were ignored and led to this.  I agree that this direction on the EF wouldn't be my first action if I were bishop, but we don't know what else happened. 

 

Now am I shocked that a Roman Catholic Bishop doesn't know how to be an administrator or how to professionally communicate issues?  No, I'm not.  Those are the exception, not the norm.

 

 
I guess it's true then one man's trash is another mans treasure.

I'm not really even supporting Mr. King, I have much greater concern for the students being punished for what Mr. King is accused of committing.

You trads? That's nice.

"One's man's trash is another man's treasure"?  That is idiotic.  Michael Taylor is a member of the FSSP parish and has intimate knowledge of the situation.  Your statement is exactly the kind of thing you say in an argument to alienate anyone that might be sympathetic to you.  It's exactly why you "trads" will always feel alienated, because however alienated you are to start, you do the rest yourselves with statements like that.  Quit wasting your bullets on battles that don't matter.

 

And what ever Mr. King is accused of and what ever he may actually be guilty of I seriously doubt it is anywhere as bad as many presidents and officials of so-called Catholic Colleges who support the mass-murder of children.

In terms of message discipline, this is the way to go.... Start applauding the Bishop for cracking down on heretical teaching and asking how we can have the same thing done at liberal Catholic schools we attend.  Unfortunately, at this point nobody is listening to you any more.  Get it?  Start with this, leave off the rest.

[KnightofChrist]

"One's man's trash is another man's treasure"?  That is idiotic.  Michael Taylor is a member of the FSSP parish and has intimate knowledge of the situation.  Your statement is exactly the kind of thing you say in an argument to alienate anyone that might be sympathetic to you.  It's exactly why you "trads" will always feel alienated, because however alienated you are to start, you do the rest yourselves with statements like that.  Quit wasting your bullets on battles that don't matter.
 
In terms of message discipline, this is the way to go.... Start applauding the Bishop for cracking down on heretical teaching and asking how we can have the same thing done at liberal Catholic schools we attend.  Unfortunately, at this point nobody is listening to you any more.  Get it?  Start with this, leave off the rest.

Ok, thank you for your personal judgement of us trads.

[NotreDame]

Ok, thank you for your personal judgement of us trads.

It's not a personal judgement.  I was quite clearly critiquing your tactics.

[KnightofChrist]

Here is an idea purposed by Father Z, that I hope we can all agree on.

An Open Letter to Most Rev. Michael Olson, Bishop of Fort Worth
Posted on 5 March 2014 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

I propose a possible way to diffuse some of the tension surrounding Fort Worth’s Bp. Olson and his banning of Mass celebrated according to the 1962 Missale Romanum at Fisher More College.

Years ago, when I worked at the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei“, we had an especially tense and even bitter round of correspondence with an American bishop who steadfastly denied to the faithful any use of the Traditional Latin Mass. Hundreds of people signed petitions. He wouldn’t budge. Finally, my boss, Card. Mayer told me that, at some point, we had to stop arguing and try to open hearts. I round-filed the draft of a conclusive letter I had brought to him and wrote a new one. He signed it and I sent it. A few weeks later we received news that, not only had His Excellency the Bishop granted regular celebrations of the Traditional Latin Mass, he celebrated the first one himself.

It was a gesture of rare healing and true grace for many people.

I am reasonably sure that someone in Fort Worth is monitoring this blog for Bp. Olson.

Therefore, I ask:

Your Excellency,

Would you not go to celebrate a Traditional Latin Mass for the student body yourself? If you object to some aspects of Fisher More College, could you not offer this Mass at the parish nearby, which Your Excellency mentioned in your letter to Mr. King, St. Mary of the Assumption?

This gesture would heal wounds that are opening up, allay fears, and give great solace to many people near and far, not the least the students of the College. They are caught in the crossfire.

I humbly ask Your Excellency to consider this petition with an open, fatherly heart.

As a token of my best wishes, I promise during Lent a daily prayer, a Memorare, for you in the heavy mandate that has been entrusted to you as Bishop of Fort Worth.

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf
 

[KnightofChrist]

It's not a personal judgement.  I was quite clearly critiquing your tactics.

 

No, your using your personal disagreement with me to personally paint us trads in a negative light.

[Ancilla Domini]

Seriously, this is why you trads keep losing to the liberals, because you don't know how to argue or how to pick your battles.  The liberals, on the other hand, have learned from the marxists in this area and wouldn't make the same mistakes.

 

You haven't been talking to the right trads. ;)

[NotreDame]

Let me make an analogy.  I am not a trad, but I am effectively in the same boat as you.  Sort of like real libertarians are stuck with republicans (eg. Rand/Ron Paul) or the way the UK was stuck with the USA from the 1930's on.  I don't have exactly the same goals as trads, but the overlap is probably 80-90%.  Meanwhile, I certainly have exactly the same enemy. 

 

So do I get upset when I see Rorate (the most widely read traditional site on the internet) jumping the gun on something and losing credibility in the process?  Yes.  Do I get upset when I see other fans of the EF jumping to conclusions and making unsubstantiated, unqualifed statements?  Yes.  Am I justified getting upset and taking issue with it?  Yes.  Why? Because now my goals will be compromised since a member of my coalition has stupidly wasted bullets. 

 

Rorate in a day has lost credibility that it will take a long time to regain.  My goals suffer as a result.  Message discipline, my friends.  Message discipline.

[NotreDame]

And here is another post from a local with insider knowledge:

 

http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/more-notes-on-fisher-more-and-comments-back-on/

 

[KnightofChrist]

Let me make an analogy.  I am not a trad, but I am effectively in the same boat as you.  Sort of like real libertarians are stuck with republicans (eg. Rand/Ron Paul) or the way the UK was stuck with the USA from the 1930's on.  I don't have exactly the same goals as trads, but the overlap is probably 80-90%.  Meanwhile, I certainly have exactly the same enemy. 

 

So do I get upset when I see Rorate (the most widely read traditional site on the internet) jumping the gun on something and losing credibility in the process?  Yes.  Do I get upset when I see other fans of the EF jumping to conclusions and making unsubstantiated, unqualifed statements?  Yes.  Am I justified getting upset and taking issue with it?  Yes.  Why? Because now my goals will be compromised since a member of my coalition has stupidly wasted bullets. 

 

Rorate in a day has lost credibility that it will take a long time to regain.  My goals suffer as a result.  Message discipline, my friends.  Message discipline.

 

I don't agree with your views about Rorate, but you are free to hold those opinions and I still have much respect for you. However you were not justified in lumping 'us trads' together as you did.