Controversy At Fisher More College

[blazeingstar]

The fact that this letter has become public knowledge is what first made me uncomfortable.  The person who was given this appears to have a persecution complex.

 

With Chere Madame's extra commentary one can determine that Michael King is in grave error and happy to get people to march to the beat of his drum.  It looks like besides the Mass issue there are some false teaching issues as well as huge misappropriation of funds.

 

It is very sad that a College loyal to the Church's teachings will likely have to close beucase one person was so dead set on disrespecting Vatican II and putting traditional Mass above the welfare of the students.

[DiscerningCatholic]

Using the Eucharist to blackmail someone? :blink:

[NotreDame]

People, quit speculating and asking questions that have been answered elsewhere... Go read all the background here before jumping to conclusions.

 

Local DFW catholic blog with background in post and the comments:

 

http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/more-notes-on-fisher-more-and-comments-back-on/

 

Another local Fort-Worther:

 

http://redcardigan.blogspot.com/2014/03/on-bishop-olson-and-fisher-more-college.html

 

The former Chancellor who resigned a while back (read his first timeline post):

 

https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall?hc_location=timeline

 

More here:

 

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/2969/bishop_of_fort_worth_draws_the_line.aspx#.Uxan2V6E65L

 

Then there is more here that everyone should have read because it was linked on Rorate:

 

http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/

 

Fr Z has some useful info on relevant canon law:

 

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/03/fr-zs-first-reaction-to-bp-olson-banning-extraordinary-form-at-fort-worths-fisher-more-college/

 

[KnightofChrist]

A lot of people have "heard" a lot things about this case, a lot of bad things about Fisher More, and about it's President, we should make a song about it... by ripping off a good song. :|

I heard it through the grapevine
that Mr. King has lost his mind.
Oh I heard it through the grapevine,
Oh and that he's guilty of all sorts of crimes.
Honey, honey yeah.

:|

I wish the Bishop had just offered one of his own priest he knew he could trust to still offer Mass in the Form of the EF. If the gossip rumors are true why just forbid the EF and not the OF? If things are so very bad why just pick one Form and not the other? It makes no sense.
 

The fact that this letter has become public knowledge is what first made me uncomfortable. The person who was given this appears to have a persecution complex.

 

The letter was written to a public representative to a public institution, the President of the College. The letter effected numerous persons in a public place, students, staff, clergy and forbid the public sacrifice of the Mass. I don't see how keeping a secret would work or even be possible. And you don't have a clue as to whether or not the person who was given the letter has a persecution complex.

Edited March 5, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[Ancilla Domini]

But he's not forbidding them from going - he even gave them a suggestion for where to go. He does have every right, according to canon law, to regulate the right of people to attend mass and the sacraments.  That includes where and when. 

 

"You do not have permission to have the public celebration of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass at the Chapel of Fisher More College."

Even if he says that they can attend the mass at another church, he has forbidden the Latin Mass from being celebrated at their chapel, which is violating the Motu Proprio.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Ancilla Domini

[NotreDame]

I wish the Bishop had just offered one of his own priest he knew he could trust to still offer Mass in the Form of the EF.  If the gossip rumors are true why just forbid the EF and not the OF? If things are so very bad why just pick one Form and not the other? It makes no sense.

 

The letter was written to a public representative to a public institution, the President of the College. The letter effected numerous persons in a public place, students, staff, clergy and forbid the public sacrifice of the Mass. I don't see how keeping a secret would work or even be possible. And you don't have a clue as to whether or not the person who was given the letter has a persecution complex.

 

I wish the Bishop had just offered one of his own priest he knew he could trust to still offer Mass in the Form of the EF.

 

Did he have one to send?  The FSSP had quit sending priests a while ago, last fall, I believe.  I think the local EF was celebrated by one of the Dallas FSSP.

 

If the gossip rumors are true why just forbid the EF and not the OF? If things are so very bad why just pick one Form and not the other? It makes no sense.

 

It does make sense, actually.  Though it might not be my preferred method of problem resolution, the Bishop is using what limited authority he has at the school (the mass) to force the President to come out as either in union with the Church or in Schism.  Students, parents, donors, deserve to know where the president is really taking the school. 

 

The letter was written to a public representative to a public institution, the President of the College. The letter effected numerous persons in a public place, students, staff, clergy and forbid the public sacrifice of the Mass.

 

It forbid the EF, but it's not clear they had daily EF at the time anyway since so many priests had already refused to celebrate mass there.

 

"You do not have permission to have the public celebration of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass at the Chapel of Fisher More College."

Even if he says that they can attend the mass at another church, he has forbidden the Latin Mass from being celebrated at their chapel, which is violating the Motu Proprio.

It's not necessarily violating the Motu Proprio... Read the link to Fr Z that I posted. 

[KnightofChrist]

Did he have one to send?  The FSSP had quit sending priests a while ago, last fall, I believe.  I think the local EF was celebrated by one of the Dallas FSSP.

It's his duty to find one, and as you point out there are FSSP priests in Dallas, he can find one of them to trust?
 

It does make sense, actually.  Though it might not be my preferred method of problem resolution, the Bishop is using what limited authority he has at the school (the mass) to force the President to come out as either in union with the Church or in Schism.  Students, parents, donors, deserve to know where the president is really taking the school.

 

No it still doesn't make sense at all. I believe you may disagree but he does not have the authority to ban the EF, no Bishop has that authority anymore, the authority never actually existed because as Pope Benedict XVI stated it, the EF was "never abrogated". I don't believe the gossip about the President, because I have no way to proof it is true. Even if I did I don't buy the accuse that it would be a reason to ban just the EF and not the OF for the whole school over the sins on one person. Why should the whole school be disciplined, why use the Mass as tool to discipline students, why not just as Mr. King to step down? Why cut off a gateway to Heaven, a union with Heaven and Earth?


 

It forbid the EF, but it's not clear they had daily EF at the time anyway since so many priests had already refused to celebrate mass there.

Other than gossip, what real proof do you have that "so many priests had already refused to celebrate mass there"?
 

It's not necessarily violating the Motu Proprio... Read the link to Fr Z that I posted.

I don't agree, and I have read Father Z post. I would take a similar position as the Canon Law Center.
 

Edited March 5, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[IcePrincessKRS]

It's his duty to find one, and as you point out there are FSSP priests in Dallas, he can find one of them to trust?
 

 

 

The FSSP already abandoned ship at FMC. They contracted on a priest with suspended faculties. That right there oughta tell you a few things about the way things are going at this school.

 

Read the FB post by Taylor Marshall, Cherie Madame posted it above and I'm pretty sure Notre Dame linked to it as well. You may still disagree with the Bishop's decision, but you cannot neglect the fact that things are not right on the other side.

[KnightofChrist]

ND I am curious how would you feel if this was a Eastern Catholic focused school, that had as its heart a Eastern Rite of the Mass, but it was under the jurisdiction of a Latin Rite Bishop, and he choose to forbid the Eastern Rite and said the school could only offer OF Latin Rite Masses? Would your perspective change?

[KnightofChrist]

The FSSP already abandoned ship at FMC. They contracted on a priest with suspended faculties. That right there oughta tell you a few things about the way things are going at this school.

 

Read the FB post by Taylor Marshall, Cherie Madame posted it above and I'm pretty sure Notre Dame linked to it as well. You may still disagree with the Bishop's decision, but you cannot neglect the fact that things are not right on the other side.

 

I don't believe Mr. Marshall, until I have more evidence than hearsay, and boarder line gossip.

[NotreDame]

K o' C...  Go read the articles and the facebook posts and you'll find answers to most of your questions. 

 

These are from DFW people with intimate knowledge of the situation.  AGAIN, did you read Michael Taylor's FB post?

 

https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall/posts/400180263452671

 

His statement isn't "gossip."  By journalistic standards he'd be considered a primary source and beyond the leaked letter, he's thus far the only primary source that has spoken out.  He attends the FSSP parish in Dallas and he points out that A)  The FSSP quit going there a while back B) no priest is requesting the latin mass at FMC and C) for a few reasons Summorum Pontificum doesn't apply.

[KnightofChrist]

K o' C...  Go read the articles and the facebook posts and you'll find answers to most of your questions. 

 

These are from DFW people with intimate knowledge of the situation.  AGAIN, did you read Michael Taylor's FB post?

 

https://www.facebook.com/DrTaylorMarshall/posts/400180263452671

 

His statement isn't "gossip."  By journalistic standards he'd be considered a primary source and beyond the leaked letter, he's thus far the only primary source that has spoken out.  He attends the FSSP parish in Dallas and he points out that A)  The FSSP quit going there a while back B) no priest is requesting the latin mass at FMC and C) for a few reasons Summorum Pontificum doesn't apply.

 

Yes, I have read his post. I in fact saw his post before he made that post saying that he would get to the heart of the matter. I'm sorry but we are not going to agree about Mr. Taylor post. For me he did not get close to the heart of the matter, as he promised, rather he just trashed his former co-workers and previous place of employment. Only towards the very bottom of the post did he really try to address the real issue, banning the Mass in the Form of the EF for the whole school, and it seemed very weak, which is probably why he felt the need for the all the accusations before hand. I don't know whether to believe it or not until I get further evidence, and again to me his post seemed really close to gossip.

[NotreDame]

ND I am curious how would you feel if this was a Eastern Catholic focused school, that had as its heart a Eastern Rite of the Mass, but it was under the jurisdiction of a Latin Rite Bishop, and he choose to forbid the Eastern Rite and said the school could only offer OF Latin Rite Masses? Would your perspective change?

This is a radical hypothetical since Eastern Rite schools would not be under a Roman Rite Bishop, but let's say there was an Eastern Rite school and the head of the school was talking about joining the orthodox....

 

In that case I'd expect my Bishop to do something to get the president in line.  I've had Ukranian priests that were bi-ritual (eastern and novus ordo) and had a Roman priest running one Byzantine Parish I served at for many years, so in absence of an Eastern Rite Catholic priest, I'd prefer Novus Ordo in an emergency to the Orthodox and I don't believe it would freak anyone out.

 

I don't believe Mr. Marshall, until I have more evidence than hearsay, and boarder line gossip.

Well, then just don't have an opinion until more evidence comes out, because right now Mr Marshall is the only person with direct knowledge who is speaking out publicly (not border-line gossip, but a journalistic primary source.)   If you don't want to believe him, then you are left with a very incomplete story that isn't sufficient to arrive at any conclusions.

 

(Note that some of the other local bloggers are also giving their own opinions and sharing inside knowledge, though one is doing so under his blogging pseudonymn.)

[Basilisa Marie]

"You do not have permission to have the public celebration of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass at the Chapel of Fisher More College."

Even if he says that they can attend the mass at another church, he has forbidden the Latin Mass from being celebrated at their chapel, which is violating the Motu Proprio.

 

...and he can do that.  It's canon law.  The right of the faithful to have access to the sacraments is carefully balanced by the responsibility of the bishop to regulate that right.  Your bishop could in fact tell you that you're not allowed to attend mass at a particular church (with a generally good reason). This is what their bishop is doing - because he knows that King is trying to distract everyone by politicizing the Latin mass. The bishop gave them an option for where to attend Latin mass because they apparently can no longer "handle" making it happen at their own place, and the bishop is sending them somewhere where he knows it won't be problematic.  

The opinion from the Canon Law Centre is nice and all, but it clearly lacks all the facts, and although it sounds all official and fancy, it's one opinion of many.  It clearly has the agenda of promoting the Motu Proprio - which is totally fine, but they shouldn't have come out with an opinion. They don't have all the facts, and frankly I think that makes it a bit irresponsible.  

[Basilisa Marie]

Yes, I have read his post. I in fact saw his post before he made that post saying that he would get to the heart of the matter. I'm sorry but we are not going to agree about Mr. Taylor post. For me he did not get close to the heart of the matter, as he promised, rather he just trashed his former co-workers and previous place of employment. Only towards the very bottom of the post did he really try to address the real issue, banning the Mass in the Form of the EF for the whole school, and it seemed very weak, which is probably why he felt the need for the all the accusations before hand. I don't know whether to believe it or not until I get further evidence, and again to me his post seemed really close to gossip.

 

He provided very relevant background information - or are you saying that what he wrote about the financial mishandling is a bunch of lies? Because that's what trashing one's former employer would be, spreading lies.