I'm Coming Out

[CrossCuT]

2nd micro-aggression of the day:

 

deliver powerpoint presentation. close power-point presentation. computer projects desktop wallpaper (a photo of Pope Francis) on the big screen.

 

My Boss: That's a really weird picture.

Everyone in room: Giggle.

Me: Turns off computer without shutting it down first.

 

Who cares though right? I'll Live!

 

Be proud! Dont shut it off! Say "I think its a kick ass picture!!"

[Lilllabettt]

 

Sometimes the amount of internal suffering we're going through is disproportionate to the objective severity of the external environment.

 

Pretend I am black or gay and you said that to me. Pretend I was complaining about my plight as a woman and you said that to me.

The feminists on this thread would lose their minds.

The above is an insult. You are telling me its "in my head."

But never mind. Who cares if my experience of reality is denied and unacknowledged?

It's not going to kill me right? I'll live!

 

 

**if you read the OP, which not sure if you did,  I was asking for support as I revealed for the first time that I am a practicing catholic to people in my home, school and workplace  -- many of whom do not accept that identity as a morally acceptable possibility.

 

Some people decided to post to say "you big baby, you don't have it so tough"  oh you'll live, etc. which is a real capital C Christian thing to do, btw.  That behavior is actually just another iteration of the ignorance I deal with every day.

[Lilllabettt]

Be proud! Dont shut it off! Say "I think its a kick ass picture!!"

 

I should have said that. I should have said: "Jealous???"

But my boss is a powerful woman, wields a lot of influence in the field. Hopefully she will forget all about it.

 

 

[CrossCuT]

I should have said that. I should have said: "Jealous???"

But my boss is a powerful woman, wields a lot of influence in the field. Hopefully she will forget all about it.

 

[mod]Language. -dUSt[/mod]

[HisChildForever]

Where are you initially from, Lilla? The northeast is a generally aggressive place. I've heard that the Boston area is particularly nasty. You have to bite back. I assume they know you're from a different part of the country? They think they can bully you, easily. Show them the opposite is true and they'll back off.

[Ice_nine]

Pretend I am black or gay and you said that to me. Pretend I was complaining about my plight as a woman and you said that to me.

The feminists on this thread would lose their minds.

The above is an insult. You are telling me its "in my head."

But never mind. Who cares if my experience of reality is denied and unacknowledged?

It's not going to kill me right? I'll live!

 

 

**if you read the OP, which not sure if you did,  I was asking for support as I revealed for the first time that I am a practicing catholic to people in my home, school and workplace  -- many of whom do not accept that identity as a morally acceptable possibility.

 

Some people decided to post to say "you big baby, you don't have it so tough"  oh you'll live, etc. which is a real capital C Christian thing to do, btw.  That behavior is actually just another iteration of the ignorance I deal with every day.

 

Well, I was trying to affirm that while it may not be so objectively bad (as in you're not being threatened with death and/or contemplating throwing yourself off a bridge) that it still might feel like some sorta lonely hell on the inside. I didn't say it was all in your head. I meant to highlight that regardless of others' appraisal of your situation it may still really suck on the inside. I say this as someone whose circumstances throughout life were pretty comfy (objectively speaking) but who for the most part didn't want to live because my internal state was a f***ing mess.

 

In terms of how you feel, it doesn't matter how swell things look to be going. Is my point still offensive?

 

Additionally I would never say that to someone gay or black because I'm very white and also sort of straight, but being a Catholic from the same region of the country you find yourself in I've had similar experiences so I feel like I can say, "yeah I relate but it's not that bad, keep a stiff upper lip" type thing. Maybe it's WRONG to think I can say that. Idk, I'm a beyotch sometimes (although I was really aiming to be sensitive in my last post which I apparently failed).

 

I did read your original post. You're braver than I. I wished you luck. I'm sorry you're having a tough time though, I really am.

[Lilllabettt]

ok. just took you the wrong way I guess.

[Not The Philosopher]

As someone who is gay/ssa/whatever I didn't find the implicit comparison in the OP particularly odious or offensive.

 

I did go through the experience of first coming out to family and friends as gay during my more sub-pagan years, and then a few years after that coming out, as it were, to family and friends as an evul konservative Christian. In both cases I had a lot of anxieties and felt vulnerable, and fortunately both cases were far more drama-free than my paranoia suggested. If in either case things went bad, I can see how I could have been hurt by it.

 

Lillabettt's experiences are making her feel like crap. She needs prayers more than attempts to calculate which group is more victimized.

 

[Lilllabettt]

Where are you initially from, Lilla? The northeast is a generally aggressive place. I've heard that the Boston area is particularly nasty. You have to bite back. I assume they know you're from a different part of the country? They think they can bully you, easily. Show them the opposite is true and they'll back off.

 

I'm by way of Ohio.

 

The thing is that up until now I was most certainly not the target of bullying ... most people did not know I was religious, let alone catholic. It was not directed at me, just floating around, an acceptable part of the atmosphere. They assumed I was joining in with them, just because I kept my mouth shut.
 

[tinytherese]

As others have said, playing the game of who has it worst isn't healthy.

 

Regardless of the intent of the speaker, "You'll live" comes off as minimizing the suffering of another. It sounds like you're saying, "You're not suffering. You have absolutely nothing to complain about."

[4588686]

Last week I was at a radical feminist conference where I spoke on a panel on women and religion. The panel proceeding mine was led by a group of lesbian asylum seekers who had become refugees on account of their sexuality and were now speaking of the discrimination (both homophobic and racist) they now experience in their place of refuge. One of them was a woman whom our group had successfully clawed back from a deportation flight only a few weeks ago. We had women flooding the airline with e-mails and phone calls about the danger she would be in back in her home country, and when the Border Agency officials conducted her to the aircraft the airline personnel refused to take her on board. To my surprise, tears came leaking out of my eyes when I heard that the flight had left without her, because I honestly hadn't expected the protest to do anything. I have never felt relief like that, or elation - the sensation that awful stuff happens but sometimes you can actually do something to stop it.

 

Last week she stood in front of our group and talked about how the (male) officials processing her asylum case had demanded video footage of her and her girlfriend having sex to 'prove' that she was a real lesbian. They will accept this as evidence where they won't accept testimony from community groups. Hers isn't an isolated case. Desperate refugee women are being exploited by certain officials to provide porn, basically - and as she pointed out, it is only possible for them to do this because the social climate makes it possible. It occurs to me that if there had been an outcry as vocal as the outcry against gay marriage, this might not be happening.

 

Then it was time for my panel, and I spoke about my experiences as a Catholic feminist, as I had been invited to do. Many of the women in that room were very anti-Catholic (including a fellow panelist, an ex-Catholic turned atheist). I did not feel hugely welcome, but at least I was there, speaking - at the invitation of the atheist organiser, no less. Sometimes it is uncomfortable for me to speak but no one is muffling my voice. Sometimes the snap judgments that people make are hurtful and unfair. But no government gatekeeper is asking me to degrade and demean myself in order to 'prove' what I am so that I will be entitled to basic safety. That is the difference. It staggers me when people don't see it.

 

I have had sneering remarks about my ashes before. I'll live.

 

 

Well, sadly, some people can't understand the difference between somebody not mild disapproval of a lifestyle choice (like practicing a religion) and substantive legal discrimination.  

 

Again, to the resident whiners, I would ask how in how many states is it legal for your employer to fire you for being Catholic?  

[AugustineA]

some reactions from today:

 

"I don't understand you." (not angry, kind of laughing, incredulous)

"You actually do the whole thing. like you don't support gay people." (angry)

"so no sex?" (incredulous)

"That's interesting." (actually interested)

"its okay. we're all growing, we're all in different places." (condescending tone)

 

I also got a hug from a fellow secret Catholic.

 

ethics professor was supportive, although advised not being open about it. He said that in his opinion Cambridge is among the least tolerant places on earth, drew a comparison to Pyongyan ( he is a secularist himself, but appreciates dissent). Oh, and its possible to be opposed to abortion rights for moral reasons but its not possible to be opposed to gay rights for moral reasons.:headdesk:

 

so ... no nuclear war, although things with my boss are awkward now. oh well.

 

Wow, you went to university with your ashes on? That is gutsy! I remember receiving the ashes when I was in university and getting all sorts of nasty looks on the bus. It sounds like you have a pretty cool professor. 

 

I do wonder what it would be like coming into work with an ash cross on my forehead. My coworkers range from cynical atheists to non-practicing Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, and one atheist, all young adults. I suspect no one would ever speak to me again except for the one Anglican guy I work beside. 

[Aloysius]

saying "you'll live" is dismissive (BAM, I said it again!).  the implicit comparison wasn't offensive to me at all, but I did think Hasan was perfectly justified in making the points he did.

 

surprised that they got on you over a pic of Pope Francis, though, as for better or worse many of the people who have been very hostile to Catholicism recently have softened their hostility a bit based on Pope Francis... 

 

some of their hostility as you described it in your earlier posts seemed centered around the Church's view of homosexuality.  as I said in another post, I think a lot of that is motivated by a lack of an ability by them to make distinctions between the Catholic view and that of very hateful people out there that give Christian beliefs/sexual morality a bad name.  I think we'd project a better image if we were doing much more to fight against discrimination and hate of homosexuals... obviously we're against it, as the CCC calls us to be, but if we are more proactive about it I think we could do some good towards securing a better tolerance of our sexual morality beliefs from them... obviously they're going to disagree with those beliefs, but perhaps they'd be more tolerant if, in addition to our reputation as working against gay marriage recognition, we also had a reputation for Mother-Theresa-style non-judgmental shelters for homosexuals who have been kicked out of their homes, if the Church distributed the USCCB's very nice pamphlet Always Our Children to all parents just in case they ended up having to deal with a son or daughter who was homosexual... if we had a reputation for really coming down hard on anyone who seemed hateful or discriminatory, who gave any appearance of unjust discrimination as the CCC says we are to avoid.  sure, for some the mere fact that we oppose homosexual marriages by the state will definitively brand us as just as bad as Hitler and the Westboro Baptist Church, but much more could be done to illustrate to people our love in this regard... it is unfortunate that the first thing that comes to mind when thinking of Christianity and homosexuality is the hate, and it is shameful that hate has been associated with Our Lord's religion of God's overwhelming love... and no, I don't think it does any good to point out that at least we don't tend to kill them like they do in Saudi Arabia or like American protestant missionaries stirred up hate in Uganda that resulted in them making laws to execute them... "at least we don't kill them" is not a very good standard to be proud of.  I think we need to do more and be able to point towards more... and so when they asked you "even all the gay stuff" a simple "I do agree with the Catholic teaching on sexual morality, yes, but I am opposed to the hatred that sometimes is wrongly perpetuated in the name of it" might have helped defuse things a little bit.  then again, maybe not, some people are jerks and will never change... but again, rejoice when they ridicule you for Christ's name for your reward will be great in heaven.

[4588686]

I'm sorry that those women faced that.  However, There are plenty of CHRISTIANS who cannot be Christian in today's world.  

 

 

That's right.  Which is why the whining and self-pitying bullpoo evidenced here by Catholic who live in countries with huge Catholic populations and powerful Catholic political institutions is all the more loathsome.  

[HisChildForever]

That's right.  Which is why the whining and self-pitying bullpoo evidenced here by Catholic who live in countries with huge Catholic populations and powerful Catholic political institutions is all the more loathsome.  

 

Catholics and other religious groups in our country might not be discriminated against as a collective whole but certainly can be and are on a more individual level--for the OP it was a daring move to reveal her faith in her particular environment, and that's all I think she was getting at. People get bullied all the time for any number of reasons. She shared a personal experience...it's not like she got up on her high horse and started her post with "you know, Catholics have it way worse than gays, and here's why."