Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Peace be with you brethren, sympathisers and others... So i was thinking, in truth i know through experience for and against that drugs and alcohol weaken our resolve/will against the feelings or thought of sin and i think particularly the sins of lust, pride and anger/resentments. All these have reduced for me as i have started the battle to eradicate these from my life. What thinketh ye all for and against. Onward christian souls. Jesus iz LORD. P.s. I'm also wondering as to whether or not most of the priests accused of statutory rape and paedophilia had a alcohol and or drug problem to one degree or another? P.s.s. I don't think the precious blood of Christ counts as alcohol although it still scientifically has the properties of alcohol in truth it becomes holy wine which we know is different right? Unless of course your an alcoholic or problem drinker than we also know the most precious blood is also contained in the most precious body of Christ. P.s.s.s. Should priests that have a drinking problem or are alcoholic be allowed to abstain from drinking from the precious cup at holy mass? P.s.s.s.s. Let's discuss this and not debate it please. Lets bridle our passions in this one whether for or against. And this is not as far as i'm aware a must believe yes or no from holy mother church, except bear in mind that holy scripture says drunkenness is evil and most priests i have asked have told me everyone has a different level between how much they can have or can't have, some,half or most i'm guessing can have none. And also bear in mind that one of the philosophies of free masonry is something like " have another one and it will be ok." Also i wan't to discuss this and please don't think or feel i am baiting you ever to proselytise my own agenda and attempt to force feed you what i believe, this is and never will be my intention, i just wan't to understand this matter better and other peoples ideas in the form of a discussion help us understand. Edited March 2, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Drugs are the worst. They can almost immediately affect our reason and will. That's not to say Alcohol is good, it just doesn't affect reason/will right away, it usually takes a few drinks. I've found that there is usually some underlying condition that unsettles a person, disturbs their inner peace, and this is what motivates them to drink and/or use drugs. Unfortunately, whatever pain or problem the person is trying to medicate, the drugs/alcohol only make it worse, creating a cycle. I think that the AA approach is good in the sense that it stops the person from making things worse, but the individual needs to look deeper at their life, what their motivations, attachments are, what affects the moments of peace they have, what unsettles them, and to address the underlying issue. (ie. make God your priority and do whatever it takes to improve your spiritual life.) If a person doesn't address the underlying problems they may just remove the drugs/alcohol only to replace them with something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) I hear what your saying and yes sometimes removing the drugs and alcohol doesn't address some underlying issues that also need healing whether from the drugs and alcohol or not, but i'm leaning towards feeling and thinking some,half or most the initial problem is beginning with the drug and alcohol use even if the individual says they felt indifferent or whatever before there drug and alcohol abuse, whether addict,alcoholic,problem drinker,problem user or even moderator. Don't all of us feel indifferent and somewhat alienated at some time or another in our child hood, isn't that one of the consequences of sin for or against(commited or had commited against)? Also a.a and n.a is not only for addicts and alcoholics the only requirement for membership for a.a is the desire to give up alcohol and the only requirement for n.a is the desire to give up drugs. Which is in the spirit of what a couple of priests have said to me that everyone that chooses to drink alcohol has a different level of what is and what isn't so to speak. God iz GOOD. Edited March 2, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) <edit> the consequences of sin being the feeling or thought of being separated from Gods love and being alone to some degree or another. Of course i assume possibly sometimes it is not from sin at all and is a test from God, in the spirit of saint Ignatius. Edited March 2, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Do you ever post here while under the influence of either drugs or alcohol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Do you ever post here while under the influence of either drugs or alcohol? Whom are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Whom are you referring to? I had a few drinks tonight, in fact. How 'bout you Tab'le? I get the impression he is asking both of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Referring to you, Tab'le Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Tab'le, check out these two podcasts on overcoming habitual sin. This one touches on AA towards the 36 minute mark: http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20120609-A-Traditional-Battle-Plan-for-Combating-Habitual-Sin-part-1.html http://www.audiosancto.org/sermon/20120609-A-Traditional-Battle-Plan-for-Combating-Habitual-Sin-part-2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 In addition to these podcasts, Tab'le, St Francis de sales talks about meditations you can do to help begin purging oneself from sin (beginning about page 8): http://books.google.com/books?id=E45JAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false Meditating on the last 4 things is always helpful, especially for those in sin, but it's also dark and progressing out of sin often requires meditation on God's love as well, especially in the form of peace and forgiveness.... One major point that the 12 steps neglect is our need to forgive others... (and I'm forgetting where I read this or if there are good resources available for others to read on this) asking forgiveness from others can be humbling, but it's not nearly as significant or necessary as it is for us to forgive others... As I mentioned at the beginning, usually someone with some sort of habitual sin (sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.) has something in their past - often their youth - that causes them pain. I believe It's necessary to forgive - truly forgive - whoever caused that pain in order to be free of it, to be at peace. In the same way, although it's theologically incorrect to say it this way, one needs to also "forgive God." Many, many people in these situations go through life angry at God. I think this is more complex and a lot could be said on the subject, so forgive me for any injustice I do in writing the following... But one has to open themselves up and, in addition to forgiving others, forgive themselves. Be at peace with themselves, "forgive" God and accept God's love as they are. Again, this is complex and to some degree it requires adopting God's point of view rather than Man's, but the point is that the barrier in accepting God's love is usually that we can't love ourselves or let ourselves be loved, because we don't accept ourselves as we are. I think all of this that I've shared is about spiritual healing and the peace and love of God at our core... meanwhile, the 12 steps (as well as the bad tendency of spiritual directors in certain "conservative" sects) is around powerlessness, ceding control (to a "sponsor" or SD) and freeing one from vice through a mechanical black and white machination of human will. There's not talk of the love or freedom that God offers. It's just an exchange of one chain for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Drugs are the worst. They can almost immediately affect our reason and will. That's not to say Alcohol is good, it just doesn't affect reason/will right away, it usually takes a few drinks. Alcohol is a drug too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Referring to you, Tab'le I have been on here tipsy several times and drunk a few times, but not for over 5 months, i have had 5 standard drinks in that amount of time all in one go and i didn't come onto phatmass. When i used to drink and i say used to even though i have had 1 bust in the last 5 months, i usually would avoid phatmass out of respect for my brethren in christ, but sometimes when i used to get drunk 2 or 3 times every 2 weeks i would bombard yahoo, but the LORDS rod came done heavy on my heart,mind and soul for doing that so i avoided there as well eventually, farm your own misery and all that jazz. How about you mort ? Jesus iz LORD. Edited March 3, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Alcohol is a drug too. agreed and i also think it is all only to be used medicinally for what ever reason but only a small amount except for extra special occasions like a wedding, but that is not an exact rule, some, half or most shouldn't have any at all. I only ever saw my grandpa drink alcohol at christmas and easter and he would only have 1 light beer, i never saw my nanna and pop drink alcohol although i have been told my pop in his day used to have a few but only a few and not alcoholically, and my grandma i see drink alcohol regularly once or twice a week but only 1 standard drink. God iz GOOD. Edited March 3, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God the Father Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 xxx no compromise no regrets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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