Please...many Questions

[Quietfire]

I started a thread in the Apo. board but figured my questions might be answered here faster, with no disrespect. This information is needed for another debate.
*the title Christ is not the debate, just the name Jesus.*

If, in the movie, the Passion of the Christ, Jesus' name is Yahushua (sorry if the spelling is incorrect) then how did we go from that to Jesus?

In other words, what is the name of the child borne to the Virgin Mary, conceived of the Holy Spirit? Yahushua, Jesus, Emmanuel?

If the name given to the child is not Jesus, then how did we come to the name Jesus?

Peace.

Edited June 6, 2004 by Quietfire

[cmotherofpirl]

Its simply a translation. Just like Mary wold have been Miriam.

[Quietfire]

So the Hebrew name is Yehosu'a (the Lord Saves) ?
In Latin it is Iesum? Same meaning?(the Lord Saves)
In Greek?
In English Jesus? same meaning? (the Lord Saves)

I've looked up the name Jesus, but all dictionaries and such state to 'see Christ'.

[cmotherofpirl]

Can't help you with the greek.

[Quietfire]

Yeah I understand that.

Am I correct on the other q's?
And does anyone know the Greek translation?


Peace.

[Crusader_4]

I could be completley off here but i am trying to recollect my religions class notes in my head right now.

That Jesus' name was actually is Yehosua (i think like Joshua) bin Joshef
or something of that a very common hebre name. Nothing special at all. at any rate. I believe we get "Jesus" from basically a translation of the word Joshua into greek i am not sure if there is any meaning at all with the translation into greek...my guess is no but i could very well b wrong tho it might kind of be like Kephas to Peter in english the word has lost a bit of its meaning i could b wrong like i mentioned before but i am pretty sure this is on track.

[Quietfire]

No, actually I think you're on the right track.

Can you find some of those notes. Some of this sounds familiar to me in my reading.

I find it crazy that this hasnt been addressed before. This person has many fooled on the whole 'sus' interpretation.

I think your on the right track Crusader 4, maybe someone else can add to this.
Keep in mind, he wasnt born with the name Jesus, but through translations that is his name. So I need to find the links.

Peace.

[cmotherofpirl]

Yehosu''a is the Lord saves in Hebrew.

[The second mark in the name is supposed to look like a comma but I can't do it on my computer.]

In Latin it is Iesum(Iesus) But in latin the endings change, depending on the sentence.

In the OT, the 6th book is Joshua. Joshua also means the Lord saves.

[cmotherofpirl]

I googled this:

The Names Yeshua and Yehoshua
by Dr. James Price, professor of Hebrew
Yehoshua in the Septuagint

Two things indicate that Yehoshua is the proper Hebrew name for Jesus:
(1) In the Greek Translation of the OT known as the Septuagint (LXX), the name Joshua is rendered *Iasous* = Jesus.
(2) In the NT, Joshua is mentioned twice (Acts 7:45; Heb 4:8), and in both places the Greek NT spells the name *Iasous* = Jesus.

Thus the Greek *Iasous* is the equivalent of Hebrew *Yehoshua*

Yehoshua in the Hebrew Bible

As far as the Hebrew Bible is concerned, it is important to note that in the early books, the name Joshua is spelled as ( yod-hey-waw-shin-ayin) or on rare occasions as ( yod-hey-waw-shin-waw-ayin). However, in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah, the high priest is named Jeshua the son of Jozadak ( yod-shin-waw-ayin); whereas in the contemporary books of Haggai and Zechariah, the same high priest is named Joshua the son of Jehozadak ( yod-hey-waw-shin-ayin beth-nun). Thus, it can be concluded that in post-exilic times of the Biblical era, the namesYeshua and Yehoshua were regarded as equivalent.

Yehoshua in the Talmud

(From A.D. 200 to 500 ancient rabbis compiled their commentaries on the Bible, Jewish social customs and historical events in the Talmud. Because it was compiled by rabbis who were leaders in rabbinical academies, the Talmud is considered to be very authoritative by Jews, even to this day. [Missler, Chuck, "The Creator Beyond Time and Space", 1996 The Word For Today, p.165] )

As far as the Talmud is concerned, it is evident that the old uncensored editions of the Talmud associated Jesus of Nazareth with the name Joshua. This is demonstrated by the following passage:

Sotah 47a

Our Rabbis have taught: Always let the left hand thrust away and the right hand draw near. Not like Elisha who thrust Gehazi away with both his hands (and not like ' Joshua b. Perahiah who thrust one of his disciples away with both his hands).11

Here, the editor's footnote reads:
[(11) MSS. and old editions read Jesus the Nazarene. R. T. Herford sees in Gehazi a hidden reference to Paul. Cf. his Christianity in Talmud and Midrash, pp. 97ff.]

Another interesting passage indicates that the Talmud regarded the changing of the spelling of a name to be a sign of divine disapproval. The following passage discusses the change of a name from Yehoshua to Yoshua. Arachim 32b
And the other?13 - He [Ezra] had prayed for mercy because of the passion for idolatry and he removed it, and his merit then shielded them even as the booth. That is why Scripture reproved Joshua, for in all other passages it is spelt: Jehoshua, but here, Joshua.14

The editor's footnote reads:
[(14) For his failure to implore the Lord to remove the passion for idolatry from the heart of the people. Just as with Abram the enlargement of his name into 'Abraham' was an expression of divine approval, so did this diminution of Jehoshua into Joshua express divine disapproval. The reason for Joshua's failure to implore the Lord to remove the passion for idolatry was his assumption that he possessed the land in its pristine holiness, so that it would in itself help Israel to overcome its idolatrous tendencies.]

Perhaps that is the reason why the Talmud altered the spelling of the name Jesus of Nazareth from Yeshua ha-Notzri to Yesu ha-Notzri. However, it is clear that the editor of the Talmud regarded this as the equivalent of Yeshua ha-Notzri. Associated with the following passage in the Talmud is an interesting footnote by the editor:

Sanhedrin 67a
For it has been taught: And for all others for whom the Torah decrees death, witnesses are not hidden, excepting for this one. How is it done? - A light is lit in an inner chamber, the witnesses are hidden in an outer one [which is in darkness], so that they can see and hear him,11 but he cannot see them. Then the person he wished to seduce says to him, 'Tell me privately what thou hast proposed to me'; and he does so. Then he remonstrates; 'But how shall we forsake our God in Heaven, and serve idols'? If he retracts, it is well. But if he answers: 'It is our duty and seemly for us', the witnesses who were listening outside bring him to the Beth din, and have him stoned.12

...
From this evidence it can be concluded that in post-exilic Bible times the names Yehoshua and Yeshua were regarded as equivalent names of the same person. Also the Talmudic evidence indicates that historically the Jews regarded the name of Jesus as Yeshua, perhaps omitting the *hey* as their sign of divine disapproval, and then subsequently omitting the *ayin* as further disapproval.

James D. Price
Dr. Price is Professor of Hebrew and Old Testament at Temple Baptist Seminary in Chattanooga, TN. He holds the following degrees:
B.S. in Electrical Engineering, Purdue University
M.Div. Northwest Baptist Seminary
Ph.D. Dropsie College for Hebrew and Cognate Learning

[phatcatholic]

if we're searching for His name in His native language, as in what someone of his day would say to get his attention, would we not need to know the aramaic?

see [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=13252"][b]my comments[/b][/url] in the apo board....

Edited June 7, 2004 by phatcatholic

[Quietfire]

Phatcatholic,
Not necessarily. (to your last question) It could still be in English, but it's the pronounciation that would be important.

Cmom, very interesting. I had to read your post twice to 'get' it. Essentially, the Jews regarded the name Jesus as equal to Yeshua. This was very interesting...
[quote]From this evidence it can be concluded that in post-exilic Bible times the names Yehoshua and Yeshua were regarded as equivalent names of the same person. Also the Talmudic evidence indicates that historically the Jews regarded the name of Jesus as Yeshua, perhaps omitting the *hey* as [b]their[/b] sign of divine disapproval, and then subsequently omitting the *ayin* as further disapproval.[/quote]

Notice the word I put in bold. The Jews omitted as [b]their[/b] sign. This does [b]not[/b] mean it is a sign of disapproval from God.

I did read somewhere on the pronounciation or Yahweh and Yahosua. Something to the extent of the word Yahoo in the pronounciation. Early Jews were called Yahoo's. And they were somewhat teased about it and after that they stopped using the name of God for fear of blasphemy.
In using that same pronounciation, then Jesus' hebrew name could sound something like this. 'Ya-Hoo-sue-ah'. It is said very quickly, almost without 'trying' to pronounce the 'h' in the 'Hoo' part. the 'sue-ah' part is also pronounced in a way as if it just rolls off the tongue as in one word, rather quickly.

When I gave that piece of information to my sister, she about nearly jumped out of her seat. She was 'desparate' for me to find that information again. (I havent been able to)

I am being led to believe that she may be leading toward Judaism. But on the odd side of Judaism. Since some of this person Z's post, like I said, refer to God as Gahaveh and such. Also, a few weeks ago, my sis made a comment that not everyone sees Jesus as the Messiah. (it wasnt what she said as opposed to how she said it...wierd) Then this person Z would say, "Listen to the lamb, cause if you listen to the lamb then you know what kind of tree I am."

One more note here. This Z person claims to be an expert in Linguistics. Obviously not in the English language. But does not bother to go into details of his/her expertise. But I do think I remember him/her using that line that you provided.
[quote]A light is lit in an inner chamber, the witnesses are hidden in an outer one [which is in darkness], so that they can see and hear him, but he cannot see them. Then the person he wished to seduce says to him, 'Tell me privately what thou hast proposed to me'; and he does so. Then he remonstrates; 'But how shall we forsake our God in Heaven, and serve idols'? If he retracts, it is well. But if he answers: 'It is our duty and seemly for us',[/quote]

I will try to find it among the hundreds of posts this person has now made (I dont look foward to that) That struck me as odd, in its familiarality.


[b]Now[/b]
I think when this is all done and we get right to the root of it all, it should be put into the Apo. board for future reading. Since I have not found any evidence ( and I am not an expert in any sense) of wrongdoing of the name of Jesus being just that, then this will at least explain to many how we got His name and why it is universally accepted now as Jesus.

I will be doing some more research today. All else are encouraged to add here.
Thank you.

Peace.

[Aloysius]

Jesus' full name is in my title. It is quite cool

יהשוה

YOD, HE, SHIN, VAU, HE

well, His name in the aramaic is actually the top one here (#28):
it goes right to left, the second word is MEESHKA, Messiah, Christ, the first word is EESHO, Yeheshua, Jesus

[img]http://www.learnassyrian.com/aramaic/3yodh.gif[/img]


by His friends and stuff in the aramaic it would've been pronounced EESHO or possibly YESHO or YEESHO

but His actual hebrew name was YEHESHUA,
יהשוה
YOD, HE, SHIN, VAU, HE (right to left)
what's cool about that name, is that if you take out the shin it's the tetragram, the four letter name of God, YHWH, Yaweh.

The Shin is the symbol of the Holy Spirit, and the Rabbis lamented the loss of Jersualem saying the Yod and He were seperated from the Vau and He and wouldn't be reunited till the Messiah came in glory.

well, put the simple of the Holy Spirit in between em you get Yeheshua, the name at which every knee shall bend because it is the Name of the Trinity!

But the Name of Jesus is just a translation, and due the same respect insomuch as it is the same Person, and the respect for that Name is only due to it because of who that Name signifies

here's the greek:

ΙΗΣΟΥ ΧΡΙΣΤΟΥ

יהשוה [color=blue]is [/color] Yeheshua [color=blue]is [/color]ΙΗΣΟΥ [color=blue]is [/color]Iesus [color=blue]is [/color]Jesus
HEBREW, HEBREW IN OUR LETTERS, GREEK, LATIN, ENGLISH

Pax Amorque Christi

[Quietfire]

That is awesome Aloysius!

Gosh, the sites I was visiting today were rather scary, in the sense that at one site that after reading some 12 pages I still didnt know exactly what religion they were touting but finally at the end they were supporting 2 books for evidence as their background.
"The Two Babylons" and "The Woman Rides the Beast".
The even claimed that the Jews(of today) are not the Isrealites in the Bible. THIS sounds more like what my sis is into. I saw alot of the same wording on that site as well as what Z is posting on another.

I appreciate all this help. It is great. I have visited so many sites which claimed there was NO link between Yeheshua and Jesus, and "all you have to do is do research and study and you will see the name Jesus is paganism" (not my words)

Its gets rather disheartening when there are NO Catholic sites (or any christian sites for that matter) to show the links properly and how we came to settle on the name of Jesus.
I've always know the name of God as YHWH and Jesus as Yeheshua or Yahesua.

Bro, I might be doing some cutting and pasting on that post. It b-e-a-utiful.

Just a few more silly q's.

If we know the name as Yeheshua in 'hebrew in our letters'. Why do we still use the name Jesus? There has got to be a simple explaination for this?

Peace.

Thank you.

[Aloysius]

that's like asking why we take a french guy named "Jean" and call him "John" it's just what we do in languages.

Pax

[Quietfire]

LOL :rotfl:

Im sorry. I couldnt help but laugh at that. But you're right. Maybe that is whats been bugging me. WHY do so many people put the importance on that one point, and then use such books as "The Two Babylons" and "The Woman Rides the Beast" to support them?

When you try to refute their claims they ask, "Do you use man made dictionaries (medieval man pagan) works?"

I am starting to realize that this person maybe Black Ishrelee (I think I spelled it wrong) So I wasnt that far off, I first thought it was Judaism but on the strange side. I googled "they were called Yahoo's" and found the site I was talking about.

This site seemed to scream of Z's work. He/she even claimed to be Ishrelee, or something of that. I think the strange wordings are just a smoke screen to confuse, so its done on purpose.

Still waiting for him/her to explain why he calls God by the name Gehaveh. He/she claims it was already explained but I told 'them' that I would show my proof only after 'they' showed me 'their' proof.

It should start to get interesting, to say the least.

Peace.

Hey! Who said you could change your avatar? I like Simba, but I loved your original one better. Oh, bother (pooh)

Edited June 7, 2004 by Quietfire