What You Don't Know Can Hurt You

[PhuturePriest]

1. Your once possibly-endearing ignorance has become, despite your protestation, quite unappetizing and, frankly, obnoxious. Your attitude is unbecoming and it will alienate most of us faster than you expect. We can deal with ignorance but add ego and most of us are out.
 
2. You may place the onus on me -- or gay people everywhere -- if you so choose, but this is more telling of your own shortcomings than it is of the invalidity of the scientific discoveries that continue to happen about what makes us different. You are entitled to your opinions and beliefs; no one here is suggesting otherwise. You absolutely get to perpetuate in your own mind and in your own family the beliefs that science continues disprove. So yes, absolutely: ignorance is your right. Do not expect, though, that people are going to stand down why you try to make light of a subject which is not only deeply personal to many of us, but which affects the lives of practically every person in the world today in some way. This is not just a fluffy theological discussion and by injecting yourself as you did, you invited the response you are receiving.

3. Prove to me that you chose to be straight. I owe you nothing, nor do I need to prove to you that I was born and developed with a natural* inclination toward romantic and sexual attraction to others of my sex.

*natural meaning it occurred biologically without outside input or reinforcement
 
4. Again? You didn't mention that it didn't matter until someone challenged your decision to interject in the conversation in the manner you did. Apparently it matters; if it didn't matter, why would you need to interject yourself into an otherwise pleasant conversation?

5. The hostility is in direct proportion to your lack of respect. Check yourself.
 

Well said, Boozer, and I appreciate the level of respect you give me -- always. You are right: I almost always frame it in such a way as to reflect on my experience as I remember it, not as I have determined in my mind for it to have occurred. Ultimately, how it came to be (too many carrots, starting with peaches instead of pears, "abnormal" structuring of the female brain, etc) is not significant in my life. What is significant is respect and love. What is, is. And what isn't, isn't to be mourned. There is a time and a place for all of that, but as a community, what we need to do is focus on how to love and support and educate. That was the initial purpose of this thread, after all...
 

 They aren't certain. Yet. But science is continually discovering new things. On the other side of this, why does it matter to you if someone's chemistry goes awry in utero or in infancy? The bottom line is that something changes -- something is different. Does this variance in biology affect your ability to love? Does it somehow damage them in a way you cannot reconcile? What is your beef REALLY? Dig deep, I'm done with the cowardice.
 

 So humans are not innately sexual?
 

 What's the most offensive thing you can do? Throw around unnecessary ideas for the sake of throwing around unnecessary ideas? Your interjection did nothing to add to the conversation that was being had, nor did it foster any sense of community. Your post, whether you choose to recognize it or not, was not only poorly informed, it actively retracted from the good will that was being shared. The very purpose of this thread was to challenge people to be more mindful of their ignorances and more attentive to their words.
 
"Posts shouldn't affect you." Some posts, he's right, should not shake you to your core. I can assure you that none of your posts have. That said, your words have weight -- ignorant or not. When you insert yourself into a conversation the way you have, throwing around unhelpful and uninformed opinions with zero regard for the effects they might have, you are inviting a certain amount of displeasure and risking the ruffling of feathers.
 
If you had inserted yourself into a conversation about a prepared food made from milk curdled by the action of cultures, we might not be having this conversation.
 
Until you understand the magnitude of the topic at hand, it may be best to excuse yourself gracefully. If you choose to stay, you now know what you're dealing with. The ball is in your court.
 

Thanks, dude. It helps me almost more than it helps the people who come to me for understanding. It's amesome to not be alone -- especially in something so heavy.

 

I'm not sure what you found disrespectful, other than the fact that we disagree on something. I wasn't aware the genetics debate was a soft spot for you, and I apologize.

 

I'm sorry you found what I said to be offensive. There's really nothing more I can say. I know what it's like to have something you can't change affect your everyday life, and it really sucks ostrich eggs. I'm sorry you have to go through with it. Having something you don't want but can't change is one of the toughest things a person can go through.

[franciscanheart]

Because you are a child, phetus, I am going to refrain from further interaction. My hope for you is that you eventually gain enough self-awareness to see where your attitude and imprudence have caused dischord. This particular opportunity for personal growth may never cross your mind again, but undoubtedly, similar situations will arise. I hope for your sake and the sake of those with whom you will interact, that you will be granted (and in a state to receive and be open to) the necessary graces to proceed with caution, reflect with humility, and acknowledge misunderstanding, if not a genuine ignorance.

 

As far as your confusion over what may or may not be offensive, I would suggest you go back and read IcePrincessKRS's post to you about what she would have done and why she viewed what you said -- and the manner in which you interjected it -- to be inappropriate in that moment. I think it was wise, and it was absolutely correct by my assessment.

 

To be clear, the genetics debate isn't a soft spot for me -- it all is. It's a soft spot for most people who deal with this, happily or otherwise. You are talking about real human beings who are living with a circumstance which you have no only not been challenged with yourself, but which you clearly have not come close to understanding. Perhaps it is an age thing, but it may very well be a character flaw. Only time will tell.

 

The initial reaction to your injecting yourself was not in reaction, necessarily, to your beliefs but rather how and when you chose to inject your beliefs into conversation. Certainly there is another layer to that -- as you will find if you go back and read IcePrincessKRS's posts to you -- but history suggests you are unwilling or unable to see that at this time.

 

I hope you have a nice life. God bless.

[Lilllabettt]

I hope you have a nice life. God bless.

 

 

Ahh the "Christian" version of the extended middle finger. Hello old buddy old pal, its been awhile.

[franciscanheart]

Ahh the "Christian" version of the extended middle finger. Hello old buddy old pal, its been awhile.

I think it's unfair for you to harp on that line as a means of proving some kind of aggression that does not exist. Your interjection is also unhelpful and unnecessary.

 

But: hi.

Edited August 28, 2014 by franciscanheart

[Lilllabettt]

mehhh no judgment. your choice to deploy the Christian middle finger is your prerogative. done it myself. sometimes it may be necessary. usually its not. Makes us look gross to nonbelievers when a take down is followed up with "God bless." Also any version of "you're awful" followed by "I'll pray for you." Not a good look.

[IcePrincessKRS]

One "sappy" thing in response to this:

 

Boozer (aka IcePrincessKRS) has shown me, almost more than anyone else in my life, what it means to be a friend by doing exactly what you have said. Morality (in this issue or any other) has never been a point of division for us, because we are both practicing and faithful Catholics. She has never asked me to be anything other than what I am, nor made me feel inferior because I was coming up short in any department. My sexuality has never been a source of bitterness in our relationship.

 

Her tireless and unwavering support of me as I navigate the challenges and disappointments of life is humbling and awe-inspiring. She directs me to God not just by the words she says (keep the good stuff coming, boozer) but by the love she shows me in her actions.

 

Ice challenges me to be better every day than I was the day before, and she picks up my cross with me when it becomes particularly heavy.

 

ALL OF THAT SAID, I know that helping me to shoulder this burden (and many others which I will not mention here, now or ever) is not always easy for her. She has struggled for the "right" words, and prayed for me so very much when I was making decisions that threatened my connection to God. It must have been very hard to stand back and let me live my life and walk my own path, all the while encouraging me gently as she does. And you know what? It's not lost on me. The amount of effort it takes to be in relationship with me is not unbeknownst to me, and I am never shy about making that clear to her or anyone else.

 

It is nearly impossible to quantify in words what that woman has done for me by showing up as my faithful, Catholic, loving friend. She is the face of Christ to me in my life, and that is no small thing.

 

 

(I'm tired and rambly and I luff Boozer. So sue me.)

 

You made me cry. I do not have to words to adequately respond to that so I will leave it simply as this: You are very dear to me and I love you.

[Anomaly]

"Have a nice life" is pretty ambiguous.
It could mean:
Your are moving on,
Don't call me.
Grow up.
I'm done with paying any notice of you.
I'm not going to frustrate myself trying to discuss with you.
Or even shaking the dust off your feet as you leave.

Dismissive and possibly rude, but It doesn't necessarily mean hatefully spiteful. Unless one wants to think the worst of others.

[Lilllabettt]

"Have a nice life" is pretty ambiguous.
It could mean:
Your are moving on,
Don't call me.
Grow up.
I'm done with paying any notice of you.
I'm not going to frustrate myself trying to discuss with you.
Or even shaking the dust off your feet as you leave.

Dismissive and possibly rude, but It doesn't necessarily mean hatefully spiteful. Unless one wants to think the worst of others.

 

 

whats your point?

ETA:

 

is it you think the extended middle finger means hateful spite? therefore "have a nice life" is not necessarily a middle finger phrase?

 

I think you are underestimating the versatility of a tall phalange salute

Edited August 28, 2014 by Lilllabettt

[Credo in Deum]

Why are we fixating about Christian middle fingers?  More questions!!!!

 

MOAR "?"!!!!

 

 

 

Q: FH is there a particular part of Christ's life you meditate on, which helps you deal with the various hardships you encounter in life because of SSA? 

[Anomaly]

whats your point?
ETA:

is it you think the extended middle finger means hateful spite? therefore "have a nice life" is not necessarily a middle finger phrase?

I think you are underestimating the versatility of a tall phalange salute

To be blunt, I think your interpretation was unnecessarily negative and your post characteristically nasty when it wasn't called for, and inherently hypocritically un-Christian in itself.

[The Bus Station]

Why are we fixating about Christian middle fingers?  More questions!!!!

 

MOAR "?"!!!!

 

 

 

Q: FH is there a particular part of Christ's life you meditate on, which helps you deal with the various hardships you encounter in life because of SSA? 

 

 

You cray cray
 

[Credo in Deum]

You cray cray
 

[PhuturePriest]

Because you are a child, phetus, I am going to refrain from further interaction. My hope for you is that you eventually gain enough self-awareness to see where your attitude and imprudence have caused dischord. This particular opportunity for personal growth may never cross your mind again, but undoubtedly, similar situations will arise. I hope for your sake and the sake of those with whom you will interact, that you will be granted (and in a state to receive and be open to) the necessary graces to proceed with caution, reflect with humility, and acknowledge misunderstanding, if not a genuine ignorance.

 

As far as your confusion over what may or may not be offensive, I would suggest you go back and read IcePrincessKRS's post to you about what she would have done and why she viewed what you said -- and the manner in which you interjected it -- to be inappropriate in that moment. I think it was wise, and it was absolutely correct by my assessment.

 

To be clear, the genetics debate isn't a soft spot for me -- it all is. It's a soft spot for most people who deal with this, happily or otherwise. You are talking about real human beings who are living with a circumstance which you have no only not been challenged with yourself, but which you clearly have not come close to understanding. Perhaps it is an age thing, but it may very well be a character flaw. Only time will tell.

 

The initial reaction to your injecting yourself was not in reaction, necessarily, to your beliefs but rather how and when you chose to inject your beliefs into conversation. Certainly there is another layer to that -- as you will find if you go back and read IcePrincessKRS's posts to you -- but history suggests you are unwilling or unable to see that at this time.

 

I hope you have a nice life. God bless.

 

I have had other people (some of whom are gay, mind you) tell me that what I said was not that offensive, and they don't think it merited such chastisement. So please stop acting like I did a great crime, and start being honest and just admitting I did something you didn't like and that's why you're mad.

 

You know what? I've also had threads that were very serious and meant a lot to me, but then people started trolling them, completely changed the subject, and then everybody left. One of them is melted into my memory, because it hurt me a lot. No one cared that it hurt me. So I went on and got over it, because I know people just thought they were being funny, or they didn't realize what they said or did hurt me.

 

I think it's fair to say we've never gotten along. We've had more downs than ups, and there's one particular thing you did that I could justifiably chew you out for, which you yourself admitted a while ago. What you did made my life hell. You betrayed my trust, went behind my back, and did something I specifically told you not to do. However, I didn't freak out, because I knew you thought you were doing the right thing. I understood. This is something you seem incapable of doing for others, and so I will not continue speaking on this thread.
 

I'll keep praying for you. I hope you do the same for me.

[Lilllabettt]

To be blunt, I think your interpretation was unnecessarily negative and your post characteristically nasty when it wasn't called for, and inherently hypocritically un-Christian in itself.

 

 

interesting. have a nice life. i'll pray for you. cuz im christian and such. And boy do you need it. But God bless.  wheres my Bible someone get me a tall glass of Jesus juice. troll-lol-lol.

 

fyi whenevs you tell someone "God bless" God hears you saying his name and zooms in on the sitch with his giant all-seeing eye. so he always knows if he's being used as part of a tell-off. talked to him the other day and he wants left out of it. 

[The Bus Station]

Allow me to preface by saying that I am a devout Catholic who has been living with SSA since childhood. Franciscanheart, I understand why Phetus's mention of the Catholic speaker with SSA upset you.

 

Having said all that,  I think the criticism being thrown Phetus/FuturePriest/Fick's way is uncalled for and, frankly, bizarre.  Yes, he made a faux pas by trying to bring up the nature vs. nurture debate.  But I'm not sure that warrants paragraphs upon paragraphs of instruction on how insensitive it was, and, essentially, how insensitive he is.  There's clearly some subtext contributing to this lovefest, as Mr. Phetus insinuated above, so y'all will have to hug this out in private.  I just felt compelled to say something in his defense, because he's a good guy and he's essentially being ad hominem'd to death for not saying the right thing at the right time.