Priests And Pedestals

[SilentJoy]

  How can we know someone is "holy" anyway?  

 

If you can't really tell if someone is "holy" or not...how do you know that you've never met a holy priest?
 

:paperbag:

[freedomreigns]

Also, St. Francis of Assisi gives the following advice:

 

"Blessed is the servant who has faith in the clergy who life uprightly according to the norms of the Roman Church. And woe to those who look down upon them; for even though they may be sinners, nonetheless no one is to judge them since the Lord alone reserves judgment on them to Himself. For inasmuch as their ministry is greater in that it concerns the most holy Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, which they receive and which they alone administer to others, so those who sin against them commit a greater sin than [should they sin] against all other people of this world." (St. Francis of Assisi)

"We must also fast and abstain from vices and sins and from any excess of food and drink, and be Catholics. We must also visit churches frequently and venerate and show respect for the clergy, not so much for them personally if they are sinners, but by reason of their office and their administration of the most holy Body and Blood of Christ which they sacrifice upon the altar and receive and administer to others. And let all of us firmly realize that no one can be saved except without the holy words and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ which the clergy pronounce, proclaim and minister. And they alone must administer [them], and not others." (St. Francis of Assisi)

[Seven77]

Piliny,  I think you should find a good priest spiritual director to talk to… if you can, go to a variety of different parishes near you. I understand your need to tell someone, but you probably shouldn't be telling those close to the priest, especially not in a detailed, direct way that might cause scandal. I totally get your frustration though.

[Pliny]

You think the priest is causing divisions yet you seem to not realize how divisive it is to talk negatively about him to other people?  I really don't get this...Even if you don't have an innate respect for the priesthood-- for their ordination and the sacrifices they make to bring us the Word and Sacraments-- you should at very least respect this priest as a person and not go chit-chatting with other people about his faults when you have not even talked to him about.  This is gossip and it is wrong.

 

Maybe you don't realize that hurting someone's reputation is a sin?  I would think that following the 8th commandment would be a bigger deal than when to kneel or stand during the liturgy. 

 

 

I do have a respect for priests and the priesthood.  You were wrong to ASSume that I don't.  I just don't believe in making a priest into an idol.

 

Hold on to your lightening bolts.  You don't understand the situation and the context.  I didn't hurt his reputation in the slightest. And I've already talked to the priest about meeting with him, so if he's a good guy, this will be resolved.

 

This is not the kneeling or standing thread.  That's a different topic.  There are many things that are bigger deals than other things. It's not an either/or situation, and that there is a greater issue does not mean the lesser issue should not be discussed.

 

[Pliny]

If you can't really tell if someone is "holy" or not...how do you know that you've never met a holy priest?
 

:paperbag:

 

You got me with that one.

 

I haven't met anyone who I was certain was holy.  I have judged people to be holy in the past, and they always ended up doing something unholy, so I think it is better not to presume such a thing, no matter if they wear a veil and kneel all day long.  

[Pliny]

Piliny,  I think you should find a good priest spiritual director to talk to… if you can, go to a variety of different parishes near you. I understand your need to tell someone, but you probably shouldn't be telling those close to the priest, especially not in a detailed, direct way that might cause scandal. I totally get your frustration though.

 

I HAD to tell those two people because they are involved in the same project and I needed to let them know that I'm quitting it.

 

However, that was done in the heat of the moment.  I want to fix this and I will be talking with the priest.  I have no doubt he's doing something wrong, but I don't think it's necessarily intentional, and perhaps he will see the light and change his ways.

 

In my neck of the woods, going to another parish is not practical.

[Nihil Obstat]

Pliny, you should be careful. Your posts could be approaching detraction against this priest, if someone were perhaps able to make a decent guess as to your parish based on your posts, or if they know you outside of the internet. Things on the internet have this annoying habit of becoming public, sometimes. And unnecessarily revealing someone else's faults is detraction.

[Pliny]

Pliny, you should be careful. Your posts could be approaching detraction against this priest, if someone were perhaps able to make a decent guess as to your parish based on your posts, or if they know you outside of the internet. Things on the internet have this annoying habit of becoming public, sometimes. And unnecessarily revealing someone else's faults is detraction.

 

Unnecessarily and intentionally revealing someone's faults is detraction.  This is a hypothetical discussion for all you know.  Nobody knows or will know who I am or to what priest or parish I'm referring, and if anyone tries to snoop around and figure it out, the fault is with him.  I have been careful to guard identities, besides changing some things here and there to be extra cautious.  I don't see how any of this will ever be known by anyone who matters, and if by some quirk it is, it's still not detraction.  

 

Someone else posted something about their priest playing favorites.  Is that detraction?  I don't have a clue who that is, who the poster is, what the parish is, or for certain whether its true.

 

Further, this is not a big fault.  It's nothing juicy that would be of interest to anyone.  

[Nihil Obstat]

Unnecessarily and intentionally revealing someone's faults is detraction.  This is a hypothetical discussion for all you know.  Nobody knows or will know who I am or to what priest or parish I'm referring, and if anyone tries to snoop around and figure it out, the fault is with him.  I have been careful to guard identities, besides changing some things here and there to be extra cautious.  I don't see how any of this will ever be known by anyone who matters, and if by some quirk it is, it's still not detraction.  

 

Someone else posted something about their priest playing favorites.  Is that detraction?  I don't have a clue who that is, who the poster is, what the parish is, or for certain whether its true.

 

Further, this is not a big fault.  It's nothing juicy that would be of interest to anyone.  

People get 'outed'. It happens. Maybe someday you invite a friend to register for an account, Who knows. But prudence is always advisable in these sorts of situations. Perhaps we have not hit that point where it constitutes detraction just yet, but it is sort of in the same ballpark. Just be prudent.

[Pliny]

I think it's good to be cautious and I appreciate the concern but this is a really small potatoes issue.  

 

Also, some might say that there is no fault here at all, that I'm just being too sensitive.  Is a complaint necessarily detraction?

 

For example, let's say I give the name of a priest and his parish and complain here on the board that I don't like him because his homilies are always 20 minutes, and I think that's too long.  Is that detraction?

 

 

[Nihil Obstat]

I do not particularly feel the need to get into specific hypotheticals. It is simply something for you to think about. I do not think this thread is prudent, but if you disagree then that is fine.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Nihil Obstat