Decline Of Marriage And Possible Solutions To Reverse The Trend

[the171]

are you saying that if a girl turns you down, she will be a goat? bro.... issues.

[blazeingstar]

Oh, so you have your own private little 1-800 line to God where you are privy to some private will of His and qualifies you to judge my Catholicism?  I must have been in a coma on the day the white smoke came out of your chimney. 

 

For the record, I don't have a family.  I lost my immediate family before getting into HS, and don't know how long my extended one is going to stick together.  So, getting married and having kids is the only way I'm ever going to have a family.  Only a monster would give someone a hard time for wanting to restore his family. 

 

So, if you are so concerned about "God's will": 

 

-read Genesis 2 where God said it is not good for the man to be alone; 

 

-read what Christ said about what kind of father would give his son a snake when he asked for a fish;

 

-read what Christ said regarding the eunuchs for the kingdom and how not everyone can handle that teaching; 

 

-read what Christ said about the sheep and the goats at the final judgment, how He said "when I was hungry you did not give me to eat", and extrapolate how the attitudes expressed by some people here would be judged in that light; 

 

-read the story in Acts of the the establishment of the diaconate and how Peter and the apostles, when the Greek widows spoke out about being neglected, did not get snarky with the widows, did not try to con them by saying "you are not aligning yourself to God's will", nor tell them they are bitter and poisoning their hearts and relationships, nor say "I find it strange you are still Christian"; 

 

None of this is private revelation, it is public record in the Bible

 

Be very careful about your next response, because it could very well determine whether you stand with the sheep or the goats on judgment day (and that goes for everyone else as well).

 

Seriously?

 

I am not going on all the things I've seen you post over the years.  You've never come off as anything but using scripture to hide behind when it comes to marriage and family.  Basically, it's like you're trying to prove God has wronged you by using God's own word.  I'm not a monster at all, just baffled why you continue to act the way you do.

 

And sorry, I really don't think you have a corner on the "no family" market.  Some people don't even make it to HS with parents or heck, even grade school, and the american foster system is no place to really build lasting relationships.

 

All I have is friends, and we are family.  For some of them, they have a biological family, for others I'm it, or rather "we're it". To declare the only way you are without family is by choice.  I chose to surround myself with people who I invest a lot of time in for better or worse.  They are my family.  I am very fortunate that I have found a romantic partner who treats and respects those people as if they are my blood kin, as he respects his own family.  I know many people without family, so sorry, I don't think you're special in that regards.

 

And take Catherine for instance.  She could lament that she can't have kids.  She married someone with a VERY scary mental disorder and her family currently consists of life's throw aways.  So I can very much say if you are "all alone" and you are not happy as a hermit there's much work to be done in your life.  Life is ugly and messy.

 

However, I don't know why I even try.   In the years I've seen you around I don't think you've ever changed your story as far as being orphaned and alone and just against all sorts of odds in finding a wife and somehow every woman you encounter has something so horribly wrong you can't bear it.

 

 

The 171---He's saying that if I don't cow-tow to his beliefs that God wants everyone to be married and that he is being slighted by culture for not providing him a wife and children who he deems acceptable then I am among the evil ones God is going to cast aside.

[Norseman82]

Seriously?

 

I am not going on all the things I've seen you post over the years.  You've never come off as anything but using scripture to hide behind when it comes to marriage and family.  Basically, it's like you're trying to prove God has wronged you by using God's own word.  I'm not a monster at all, just baffled why you continue to act the way you do.

 

And sorry, I really don't think you have a corner on the "no family" market.  Some people don't even make it to HS with parents or heck, even grade school, and the american foster system is no place to really build lasting relationships.

 

All I have is friends, and we are family.  For some of them, they have a biological family, for others I'm it, or rather "we're it". To declare the only way you are without family is by choice.  I chose to surround myself with people who I invest a lot of time in for better or worse.  They are my family.  I am very fortunate that I have found a romantic partner who treats and respects those people as if they are my blood kin, as he respects his own family.  I know many people without family, so sorry, I don't think you're special in that regards.

 

And take Catherine for instance.  She could lament that she can't have kids.  She married someone with a VERY scary mental disorder and her family currently consists of life's throw aways.  So I can very much say if you are "all alone" and you are not happy as a hermit there's much work to be done in your life.  Life is ugly and messy.

 

However, I don't know why I even try.   In the years I've seen you around I don't think you've ever changed your story as far as being orphaned and alone and just against all sorts of odds in finding a wife and somehow every woman you encounter has something so horribly wrong you can't bear it.

 

 

The 171---He's saying that if I don't cow-tow to his beliefs that God wants everyone to be married and that he is being slighted by culture for not providing him a wife and children who he deems acceptable then I am among the evil ones God is going to cast aside.

 

She chose the goats (not surprising, considering her behavior on the "Controversial" thread). 

 

I don't want to be in her shoes on judgment day. 

 

Edited February 24, 2014 by Norseman82

[the171]

She chose the goats (not surprising, considering her behavior on the "Controversial" thread). 

 

I don't want to be in her shoes on judgment day. 

 

 

if she's going to hell, she's going to have to save a spot for you.

Edited February 24, 2014 by the171

[blazeingstar]

She chose the goats (not surprising, considering her behavior on the "Controversial" thread). 

 

I don't want to be in her shoes on judgment day. 

 

 

 

 

Ummmm.....so....how does condemning me to be a goat make you any better?  Do you get joy in condemning me?

 

You really have no answer but a flash of anger.  Do you have any real reason for not creating a group of loved ones for yourself?  Are you paralyzed and unable to speak to people besides on the internet?  I know on Ave Maria there was a delightful young man who was paralyzed from the neck down, but he seemed to be quite the social butterfly, so I doubt you're him.

 

I am who I am.  I make a difference in people's lives by be a bit of a hard-edge.  I purposely make people question what they believe because unless they are lazy they find ways to reaffirm themselves and/or realize they are in a rut.  There are those on phatmass who think that my lack of what they feel is compassion is sinful or even psychologically bent.  But I given my relationship with God, my friends, the Church, my dog, my fiancee, co-workers and clients and those who God has deemed me call family for today, I'd say those claims are skewed.

[Winchester]

Pirate

Powder

 

Cannon


I think this is the problem. It's in the loading technique. Have you considered a polite request for permission to board? Offer to swab the deck.

[polskieserce]

But Polkie, here's the problem...  You do state that the legal aspects (and resulting economic incentives of those) are what you wanted to discuss and what you advocate changing, but your understanding of the legal aspects is a bit skewed.

 

#1 - That's not how marriage contracts work.  Divorce only divides up common assets, not assets that predated the marriage.

 

#2 - And of course the courts feel differently because that's the way the law was written.  Marriage law goes back to British common law.  It was crafted this way precisely to incentivize men to stay in marriages and take care of their children.  Prior to 50 years ago that's where the risk was.  It was a lot easier for men to take off and start over than for women.  Also - as far as I know - most courts don't award alimony unless the marriage is ten years old.  What they award is child support.  The amount and manner of child support doesn't always seem fair, but the concept certainly is. 

 

Now I don't think your ignorance in this area is evidence of misogyny, nor do I think it warranted the irrational responses that followed, but it's probably these statements that set people off. 

 

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but I am still claiming that my understanding of the legal aspects is not a bit skewed.  It's the way others interpreted my statements that is skewed.  Lets follow up with the two examples you listed and I will show you what I mean (numbers inserted by each comment).

 

#1 - The common assets are exactly what I'm talking about.  Let's face it, if two people get married in their mid 20s, they are not going to have many assets, especially not in this type of economy.  Most of the assets they acquire will be later in life (after they are already married).  If the guy is a dr making 100k a year and his wife is unemployed and staying at home (and no kids) the courts will not care that the guy was the sole financial engine in the relationship.  The judge will give the wife a butt-load of stuff she never worked for.  Here is another example.  The wife is working part time, earning 20k a year at a part time blue collar job and with the kids during the week.  The husband is making 70k a year full time (white collar) during the week and still spends time with the kids on the weekend.  In a divorce, the court would still give the wife an incredibly large settlement, despite the fact that she was contributing to less than 1/3 of the total family income.  Does the court consider the fact that she would still be earning very little without the guy?  Nope.  Does the court make sure that the ex husband and not the government has to support her?  Absolutely.  A much fairer system would be to divide common assets based on income contribution.  But that is not in the government's interest, because the government basically seeks to make sure that men and not government agencies are helping support those women.  Why else do you think Bush jr was trying to get poor women to marry.

 

#2 - Yes, I know the courts feel differently.  And that's exactly the point I'm making.  Modern marriage was created to get men to stay, but lately the incentives simply have not been there, plain and simple.  Why should alimony exist at all?  I don't care it the marriage lasted 2 days or 30 years.  If two people split up, they should pull their own weight.  If that means that the woman spends the next two decades of her life working 60 hours a week and transitioning from homeless shelter-->section 8 housing--->trailer park home, then so be it.  That's what a person deserves for making their spouse be the exclusive bread winner.  There need to be much stronger incentives for men because women hold all the cards now.

 

-Abortion?  Woman gets to decide, men need to shut up and let the woman take charge of her own body

-Domestic violence?  Just cry in front of the judge and the guy is guilty (I know of a case personally where lying was involved to get custody of a child)

-Bored of your man?  Just divorce him and make him pay for your upkeep (alimony)

-Can't afford a lawyer because you have no career and were at home all day?  No worries, the judge can tell your ex to pay your attorney fees

-Didn't contribute much to the family's assets?  Don't worry, you are still guaranteed at least 50% even if you contributed little/nothing to the common assets

 

Seriously, what's in it for a guy these days???  Everything an average, everyday guy cares about can be obtained without a marital contract, and that's why you are seeing more long-term relationships assume a non-marital form (cohabitation).  There aren't enough religious guys to counterbalance the trend.  Anyone can continue to try to argue the point, but the bottom line is that modern marriage has always been an institution centered around women and children, not men.  That's why additional incentives for the man are necessary.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

wut is happening

[Winchester]

if she's going to hell, she's going to have to save a spot for you.

I have a table reserved, and very few dudes are on the list. The velvet rope shall not be unhooked for norse. Sorry, bro.

[Winchester]

Be very careful about your next response, because it could very well determine whether you stand with the sheep or the goats on judgment day (and that goes for everyone else as well).

If our salvation hinges on internet posts, we're all right fooked.

[HisChildForever]

With all due respect, you can disagree with someone, but to declare they're going to Hell like that is just plain wrong.

[PhuturePriest]

Are you God?

 

 

You don't know me, you're not God!

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMjcDbYxS3M

[NotreDame]

um... I'm pretty sure gingers don't have souls and I'm pretty sure we are going to be judged by internet posts - or at least how many props our posts got.

[Norseman82]

Ummmm.....so....how does condemning me to be a goat make you any better?  Do you get joy in condemning me?

 

You really have no answer but a flash of anger.  Do you have any real reason for not creating a group of loved ones for yourself?  Are you paralyzed and unable to speak to people besides on the internet?  I know on Ave Maria there was a delightful young man who was paralyzed from the neck down, but he seemed to be quite the social butterfly, so I doubt you're him.

 

I am who I am.  I make a difference in people's lives by be a bit of a hard-edge.  I purposely make people question what they believe because unless they are lazy they find ways to reaffirm themselves and/or realize they are in a rut.  There are those on phatmass who think that my lack of what they feel is compassion is sinful or even psychologically bent.  But I given my relationship with God, my friends, the Church, my dog, my fiancee, co-workers and clients and those who God has deemed me call family for today, I'd say those claims are skewed.

 

The purpose is to try to get you to stop making hurtful comments, but obviously you are too obstinate to change, so I'm not going to waste any more effort on you.  You're going on ignore. 

 

[mod]Personal Attack -Aloysius[/mod]

[Norseman82]

With all due respect, you can disagree with someone, but to declare they're going to Hell like that is just plain wrong.

 

It was perfectly acceptable tactic when I was growing up. 

 

My purpose was to try to get her to pull back and stop saying hurtful things (this is not the only thread she has been hurtful to people in).  Obviously she chose to be obstinate and ignore it, so I simply wash my hands of her.  She's on her own, but now she cannot plead ignorance on judgment day.