Decline Of Marriage And Possible Solutions To Reverse The Trend

[polskieserce]

Everyone at some point has probably heard that marriage is declining.  Fewer people, males especially, are rushing to get married because we live in a very different world and the forces that drove people to marry either no longer exist or have been significantly diminished.  Several decades ago, the playing field was very different.

 

-Cohabitation was culturally unacceptable

-Premarital sex was less common

-Virgins of both sexes were easier to find

-Divorce wasn't as rampant as it is now

-Family court was not ultra-biased against males like it is today

-The culture was friendlier towards marriage and family values

-Guys wanted to get married because they felt like they actually gaining something from it

 

Nowadays, take every point I just typed and reverse it.  Those are exactly the reasons why marriage is declining in the Western world.  In some western countries that are more culturally liberal in the US, you basically have a glimpse of what the US will be like relatively soon.  Many religious groups, including the Catholic Church, have spoken out against this trend and the destabilizing effect it’s having on society.  Politicians like Bush have tried to throw some money at the issue by encouraging marriage amongst lower class people.  But so far the trend has shown no signs of reversing itself.  Not enough people are talking about the lack of incentives that young people have to get married.  Pretty much the only groups of people who are talking about the lack of incentives to get married are

 

1) men who have sworn off marriage under all circumstances

2) men who have just gone through a divorce and realized how anti-male the family court system really is

 

This was an interesting video I came across a few weeks ago that touches on the topic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D33L4zxjpH0

 

I wanted to see what other Catholics have to say about the matter.  Do you agree that the only way to reverse the trend is by offering practical legal and economic incentives?  Or do you see another solution to the problem?

[arfink]

I think the most Catholic thing to do is to say, to hell with the damned culture, I'm getting married anyway. We'll outlive and out-breed them, like the "barbarians" did to Rome.

[arfink]

And while I'm sure there are in fact fewer incentives for men, I don't think that Catholic men need be concerned.

 

I'm not going to get into the courts discussion here because I don't know a thing about it.

 

But concerning taboos about sex and unmarried cohabitation, that's just something Catholic men will have to live with. I've heard plenty of fedora-toting nice-guys lamenting that they can't find someone to get married to and blame it on the fact that society condones a whole bunch of immoral stuff. While that may be true, you just kinda have to live with it. I don't think it's wrong of women to expect more from their husbands than in previous ages and for men to be getting less of a huge payoff for being willing to be married instead of just having sex and running away.

 

IMO, if you can find a Catholic woman who wants to get married, you've got your incentive right there. No other is really needed.

[Basilisa Marie]

I don't think 'incentives' are reasons why people get married (at least, for women), but I think disincentives certainly turn people away from getting married. People usually don't need any more incentive to get married other than them being in love. Get rid of the reasons why people choose to postpone marriage, and you'll have more people getting married.  I know plenty of people who would be married now if they could afford it - something to do with having lots of (student) debt and our culture's obsession with having a big expensive wedding. 

 

 

 

[PhuturePriest]

I don't think 'incentives' are reasons why people get married (at least, for women), but I think disincentives certainly turn people away from getting married. People usually don't need any more incentive to get married other than them being in love. Get rid of the reasons why people choose to postpone marriage, and you'll have more people getting married.  I know plenty of people who would be married now if they could afford it - something to do with having lots of (student) debt and our culture's obsession with having a big expensive wedding. 

 

There's also this idea in society that you need "all of your ducks in a row" before getting married. You need to establish a good-paying and solid career, have money in the bank, and be able to afford an expensive ring and even more expensive wedding. In this era of student debt, none of these things usually happens until people are in their late 30's. Add onto the fact that people also won't have children until after a few years of marriage, because again, they need these mythical pesky ducks in a row. This actually reminds me of what one Catholic apologist said when someone asked him if it was okay to wait to have children after marriage until he had the money: "It depends on your economic situation, but I'll tell you, I have five children, and if I waited to have them until I had the money, I wouldn't have ever had them."

[CatherineM]

Premarital sex was common in bygone eras. It just wasn't talked about unless a problem came up. As to divorce courts being against men, actually in the old days custody in divorce courts wasn't given to either party. My mom didn't go through with divorcing her first husband until she had my Dad lined up for fear she'd lose my two older brothers to foster care. Kids would go to relatives or orphanages until one of the parents remarried.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

The O.P said that outside of the U.S is where the trends where happening, i thought the U.S was where the trends where coming from and popularised. We all watch amercan shows you know and our own medias are influenced by the U.S big wigs(australia anyway), free masons and all that jazz. But yes i think Australia is suffering from a lack of commitment also now days. And i think it stems from the idiot box, who needs a wife when you can play a game or watch a movie or t.v series, who needs to think about anything serious really when you have been turned into a zombie, it's to much effort i have a magic wand 'click click' i'm channel surfing by the way, NOT!

 

P.S. "MARGE GET ME ANOTHER BEER THE FOOTBALLS STARTED." " YES' HOMER, OK HOMER"  WHAT A LOAD OF DOO DOO, YOU HAVE ALL BEEN BRAINWASHED TO SOME DEGREE OR ANOTHER.

 

P.S.S. I should say WE because i was brainwashed to but have begun the un brainwashing the last 4 or 5 years, slowly.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

<edit> P.S.S I should say WE because i was brainwashed to but have begun the un brainwashing the last 4 or 5 years, but it is taking time. You know supposedly the illumanti/free masons have majority control of all forms of media probably like 40% and that may be being nice, and also supposedly they flash satanic symbols behind the picture several times during any show or movie, and it empowers demons to influence the people watching it because there is some kind of consent because you have switched the darn thing on. I think you will see the decline of morality in the west stemming from the invention of motion pictures, not that there evil in origin but free masons have possibly been flashing those images for a long time. Coca cola used to flash there symbol for a split second it in the 80s and early 90s supposedly during sponsered programs and i was led to believe where banned from doing it, the free masons continue to do so i believe without restriction and there not just flashing the coca cola symbol which is bad enough but this is an invasion we have not given them permission to do so, perhaps it's in the t.v's instruction manual or something or the movies terms and conditions of use?

 

Switch off the T.V, movies and games untill motion pictures are used for the greater good to encourage good morals and promote virtue and you will see change. And even if the free masons aren't flashing satanic symbols most of it belongs in the sess pool and you oldies may say well it wasn't like that back in my day, well it was young men where pashing young girls almost at first glance even in the black and whites.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[polskieserce]

I think the most Catholic thing to do is to say, to hell with the damned culture, I'm getting married anyway. We'll outlive and out-breed them, like the "barbarians" did to Rome.

 

But I'm talking about society at large, not a small subsection of the population.  It doesn't really matter that much from a political and demographic standpoint if the majority are not moving in that direction.

 

And while I'm sure there are in fact fewer incentives for men, I don't think that Catholic men need be concerned.

 

I'm not going to get into the courts discussion here because I don't know a thing about it.

 

But concerning taboos about sex and unmarried cohabitation, that's just something Catholic men will have to live with. I've heard plenty of fedora-toting nice-guys lamenting that they can't find someone to get married to and blame it on the fact that society condones a whole bunch of immoral stuff. While that may be true, you just kinda have to live with it. I don't think it's wrong of women to expect more from their husbands than in previous ages and for men to be getting less of a huge payoff for being willing to be married instead of just having sex and running away.

 

IMO, if you can find a Catholic woman who wants to get married, you've got your incentive right there. No other is really needed.

 

I disagree with this 100%.  Catholic men should be concerned about this stuff because it affects them just as much.  A divorce court will not care at all if a man is a practicing catholic.  The same biased laws apply.  And the trend of not getting married is showing up among catholics as well.  Just because a person is catholic does not mean they don't make decisions from a risk/reward standpoint.

 

I don't think 'incentives' are reasons why people get married (at least, for women), but I think disincentives certainly turn people away from getting married. People usually don't need any more incentive to get married other than them being in love. Get rid of the reasons why people choose to postpone marriage, and you'll have more people getting married.  I know plenty of people who would be married now if they could afford it - something to do with having lots of (student) debt and our culture's obsession with having a big expensive wedding. 

 

So you are saying that people don't analyze the pros and cons of long term, life changing decisions?  Women are obviously going to be more pro-marriage since the legalities and social structure of marriage are geared for their benefit, while with men, it is geared towards reducing their autonomy in every aspect of life.  I agree 100% that the education bubble and poor economy are taking a big toll on the marriage rate, but those issues are only part of the story.  Marriage was declining long before the great recession began.

 

There's also this idea in society that you need "all of your ducks in a row" before getting married. You need to establish a good-paying and solid career, have money in the bank, and be able to afford an expensive ring and even more expensive wedding. In this era of student debt, none of these things usually happens until people are in their late 30's. Add onto the fact that people also won't have children until after a few years of marriage, because again, they need these mythical pesky ducks in a row. This actually reminds me of what one Catholic apologist said when someone asked him if it was okay to wait to have children after marriage until he had the money: "It depends on your economic situation, but I'll tell you, I have five children, and if I waited to have them until I had the money, I wouldn't have ever had them."

 

Agreed, that is definitely taking its toll on people.  It's very expensive to properly raise a child from birth till high school, therefore it's not a task that should be undertaken lightly.

 

Premarital sex was common in bygone eras. It just wasn't talked about unless a problem came up. As to divorce courts being against men, actually in the old days custody in divorce courts wasn't given to either party. My mom didn't go through with divorcing her first husband until she had my Dad lined up for fear she'd lose my two older brothers to foster care. Kids would go to relatives or orphanages until one of the parents remarried.

 

I have never heard of that before.  What I heard of before was that fathers were given primary custody of children.

[arfink]

I disagree with this 100%.  Catholic men should be concerned about this stuff because it affects them just as much.  A divorce court will not care at all if a man is a practicing catholic.  The same biased laws apply.  And the trend of not getting married is showing up among catholics as well.  Just because a person is catholic does not mean they don't make decisions from a risk/reward standpoint.

 

Of course not. Now, I am a little miffed that you immediately made this about courtroom stuff, since I specifically said I had no opinion on the matter where courts are concerned because I don't know anything about them. So maybe instead of courts we should discuss, say, courtship? Dating? Whether fedoras attract lifelong mates?

[polskieserce]

Of course not. Now, I am a little miffed that you immediately made this about courtroom stuff, since I specifically said I had no opinion on the matter where courts are concerned because I don't know anything about them. So maybe instead of courts we should discuss, say, courtship? Dating? Whether fedoras attract lifelong mates?

 

The legal and economic incentives are basically what I'm getting at with this thread.  Most people, even if they associate with the catholic church, are too secular to care about the theological justifications for many of the church's positions.  A growing number of people are questioning the purpose of marriage from a risk/reward standpoint.  I am of the group which advocates stronger legal/economic incentives to get people interested in the arrangement.  Cohabitation is on the rise because a growing number of people are embracing a utilitarian attitude towards their romantic relationships.  They can get most of the benefits of marriage from cohabitation, while taking far fewer risks.  In the minds of a growing number of people, cohabitation gives you more bang for your buck, and this is reflected in the numbers coming in.

[arfink]

The legal and economic incentives are basically what I'm getting at with this thread.  Most people, even if they associate with the catholic church, are too secular to care about the theological justifications for many of the church's positions.  A growing number of people are questioning the purpose of marriage from a risk/reward standpoint.  I am of the group which advocates stronger legal/economic incentives to get people interested in the arrangement.  Cohabitation is on the rise because a growing number of people are embracing a utilitarian attitude towards their romantic relationships.  They can get most of the benefits of marriage from cohabitation, while taking far fewer risks.  In the minds of a growing number of people, cohabitation gives you more bang for your buck, and this is reflected in the numbers coming in.

 

You are a pun master, my friend.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Seriously though. Switch off the t.v and stop going to movies and start doing spiritual stuff like the holy rosary and/or attending holy mass more regularily, praying morning prayers(one our father, 3 hail marys and a glory be should suffice, if you can do more do more) and reading holy scripture ( some psalms in the morning after prayer is good enough if your not much into reading, JC " seek ye first the kingdom of God and all else will be added to you.") and doing an examination of concience before going to bed at night for however long and hour of being still and listening to the urings of the holy spirit and just plain old thinking without any distractions(in the quiet of your heart) before bed is highly recommended. You don't have to be a great saint but as catholic christians where all chosen to be saints, a light in the darkness. This with the grace of God for we can not do it alone will reverse the curse of infedelity. Try it for 28 days if you have never tried it before, switch off to switch on, simple. You may fear "what will people think, i need to fit in." well the glamor and sensuality of the media has told you this, it is a lie, because your called to be in the world but not of the world.

 

Also even the news is deceptive. It delivers always the Bad news and than we focus on the bad news and are incapacitated to deliver the Good news, the Good news of salvation.

 

 

Onward christian souls.

 

Jesus iz LORD.

 

P.s. Be a trend setter, if you don't do it no one ever will, and you may be suprised,some may follow or even many, it begins with one and that one is you. Try the 28 days even if you don't start going to holy mass more regularily, doing the holy rosary or morning prayers and psalms. just switch off the t.v and movies for 28 days and spend some extra time with you and Jesus however you spend that time, you may be pleasently suprised.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[CatherineM]

I have never heard of that before. What I heard of before was that fathers were given primary custody of children.

Lon Chaney, Jr. is an example. Contrary to what his dad's bio movie showed, his dad was repeatedly refused custody of him because he was an unmarried man. Didn't matter how nice his home was or how much money he made. He got custody immediately after marrying.

[havok579257]

The legal and economic incentives are basically what I'm getting at with this thread.  Most people, even if they associate with the catholic church, are too secular to care about the theological justifications for many of the church's positions.  A growing number of people are questioning the purpose of marriage from a risk/reward standpoint.  I am of the group which advocates stronger legal/economic incentives to get people interested in the arrangement.  Cohabitation is on the rise because a growing number of people are embracing a utilitarian attitude towards their romantic relationships.  They can get most of the benefits of marriage from cohabitation, while taking far fewer risks.  In the minds of a growing number of people, cohabitation gives you more bang for your buck, and this is reflected in the numbers coming in.

 

 

if a catholic man is thinking about what the outcome could be in divorce court he should not be getting married plain and simple.  So who gives a flip what happens in divorce court.  If you go into marriage with divorce as a possible out, your not practicing your faith properly and are being unjust to your future wife.