Making Out

[Lilllabettt]

Just something I'm thinking about:

 

If the goal is avoiding arousal, you're gonna have a bad time, at least in my experience. As others have noted, sometimes simply being around the person you love most can set off biological and emotional arousal. If we should flee from anything that stirs up those feelings, I honestly don't know how we're supposed to be in a romantic relationship at all.

 

This isn't a statement for/against making out. I'm rather talking about those who mention we shouldn't be aroused like that before marriage.

 

Well ... do you see a difference between being in the same room with someone and getting aroused and making plans to go somewhere private and isolated with that someone so you can make out with them and get aroused?

 

why do most people people make out in private?  Sometimes people make out in public, and observers will tell them to "get a room."  Why is that, do you think?

[NotreDame]

why do most people people make out in private?  Sometimes people make out in public, and observers will tell them to "get a room."  Why is that, do you think?

Or like in latin america where everybody lives at home, so couples are forced to use park benches and "cuddle" on the grass. It's pretty much a staple of life south of the border.  Otherwise, I loathe PDA and view it as a sign of weakness in a guy.

[Nihil Obstat]

I think we can make a relevant distinction between becoming aroused, and encouraging or seeking arousal. The later would be unchaste. The former depends on circumstances and intention.

[MissyP89]

Readers, keep in mind I don't know anything about relationships, so take this thought as an idea that is open to being more properly formed. ;)

 

I think the idea definitely shouldn't be to avoid any and all arousal, because you'll basically be stuck doing nothing else but two word text messages to each other every other week. Arousal is inevitable, so perhaps the idea should be learning how to manage it, and making sure you aren't unnecessarily running into situations you know will make you aroused.

 

You can be a smart cookie sometimes, punk. :)

 

One of the things Jason Evert actually talks about is the tendency to swing the pendulum in the opposite way and try to avoid anything sensual out of fear. One or both members of the couple "ties themselves to a tree," which can be just as damaging as going too far.

 

I'll open up a little bit more on this: My fiance and I both came into our dating relationship with a lot of baggage, both emotionally and regarding chastity. We wanted to treat each other better than we had treated others in the past, so for a while we agreed to just hold hands.

 

As our relationship progressed it became apparent that we were merely trying to shove down and push away the healthy desire to show affection. It took a long time for us to work through those issues and that fear, but one of the things that helped the most was making an effort together to learn to show affection in a healthy way. I shudder to think about what would have happened to us if we continued dancing around the issue.

 

tl;dr: Generally speaking, no matter what boundary a couple sets, it should be one where sexuality is integrated in a way that's healthy.

 

That said, I'm proud of you, Miles. I obviously chose a different path, but I'm sure if you stick to your decision you'll be very happy when you do find your wife.

[Lilllabettt]

I think for the typical, sexually integrated individual, "making out" is sexually arousing. Actually I think for the vast majority of people that is the point of the activity. Sexual arousal is a nice feeling, but one most people prefer to have in private.

 

And a typical observer has no wish to watch people sexually arousing each other and would prefer they do that kind of thing in private. Hence, "get a room."

 

Makes sense to me.

[MissyP89]

Well ... do you see a difference between being in the same room with someone and getting aroused and making plans to go somewhere private and isolated with that someone so you can make out with them and get aroused?

 

why do most people people make out in private?  Sometimes people make out in public, and observers will tell them to "get a room."  Why is that, do you think?

 

Yeah, I do see the difference there, thanks. I was confused when people were suggesting avoiding anything that would arouse, but that helps.

[PhuturePriest]

You can be a smart cookie sometimes, punk. :)

 

One of the things Jason Evert actually talks about is the tendency to swing the pendulum in the opposite way and try to avoid anything sensual out of fear. One or both members of the couple "ties themselves to a tree," which can be just as damaging as going too far.

 

I'll open up a little bit more on this: My fiance and I both came into our dating relationship with a lot of baggage, both emotionally and regarding chastity. We wanted to treat each other better than we had treated others in the past, so for a while we agreed to just hold hands.

 

As our relationship progressed it became apparent that we were merely trying to shove down and push away the healthy desire to show affection. It took a long time for us to work through those issues and that fear, but one of the things that helped the most was making an effort together to learn to show affection in a healthy way. I shudder to think about what would have happened to us if we continued dancing around the issue.

 

tl;dr: Generally speaking, no matter what boundary a couple sets, it should be one where sexuality is integrated in a way that's healthy.

 

That said, I'm proud of you, Miles. I obviously chose a different path, but I'm sure if you stick to your decision you'll be very happy when you do find your wife.

 

Assuming my wife isn't the Church, I'm sure you're right. ;)

[Maggyie]

Maggie, I think other people can read the article and come to a different conclusion. The details "of the facts of life" can include positions and other things which are not appropriate for most people who are not on the threshold of marriage. Are you seriously saying those of us who are unmarried need to know those things?

It's not a problem for them to know about the "details." It's not some kind of forbidden knowledge; it's human biology. There is nothing filthy or sinful or impure about the reproductive process of humans and nothing that needs to be kept secret from mature adults. I'm sure some people can't handle it but most are fully capable. No, I wouldn't tell a teenager all the details but I certainly hope adults do not wait until they are 2 weeks from their wedding day to learn about practicalities. Childlike innocence of these matters is most appropriate in children...in fact a few days spent in the country would cure any adult of the need to blush.

And that's the thing, you can probably count on one hand the people who sit down 2 weeks from marriage to learn the X's and O's! This is how the Church loses people, and hypocrisy sets in, when it becomes a Let's Pretend game of ignoring reality, pretending a good Christian must stick their fingers in their ears and squeeze their eyes shut so as not to be defiled by knowledge. The marriage vows are the key to the locked up section of the library... And then we are surprised when people are confused and hurt by what they learn after they finally gain access?

The ironic thing is we've even had a pope write about the mechanics of sex and orgasm - how sad if someone waited to read him until after marriage from a misplaced sense of shame.

But it's not even the Church's standard- she exhorts us to purity and modesty, and gives few details, recognizing that these are not external concepts that can be measured, quantified, or checked off. Rather these are internal spiritual conditions and deeply subjective!!! A virgin who wears a sack and keeps her mind free of the slightest sexual thought can be both immodest and impure. And vice versa. But throughout history the church has been blessed with experts, clerical and lay, eager to fill in the details and tell us otherwise. Whether out of a sense of misogyny or obsessive compulsion or some other kind of anxiety.

[MissyP89]

Assuming my wife isn't the Church, I'm sure you're right. ;)

 

Well in theory I guess it would still hold true. You'd be glad. LOL

[PhuturePriest]

Well in theory I guess it would still hold true. You'd be glad. LOL

 

When I'm ordained one day, I'll have somebody take a picture of me kissing a pillar in the cathedral. ;)

[Basilisa Marie]

It's not a problem for them to know about the "details." It's not some kind of forbidden knowledge; it's human biology. There is nothing filthy or sinful or impure about the reproductive process of humans and nothing that needs to be kept secret from mature adults. I'm sure some people can't handle it but most are fully capable. No, I wouldn't tell a teenager all the details but I certainly hope adults do not wait until they are 2 weeks from their wedding day to learn about practicalities. Childlike innocence of these matters is most appropriate in children...in fact a few days spent in the country would cure any adult of the need to blush.

And that's the thing, you can probably count on one hand the people who sit down 2 weeks from marriage to learn the X's and O's! This is how the Church loses people, and hypocrisy sets in, when it becomes a Let's Pretend game of ignoring reality, pretending a good Christian must stick their fingers in their ears and squeeze their eyes shut so as not to be defiled by knowledge. The marriage vows are the key to the locked up section of the library... And then we are surprised when people are confused and hurt by what they learn after they finally gain access?

The ironic thing is we've even had a pope write about the mechanics of sex and orgasm - how sad if someone waited to read him until after marriage from a misplaced sense of shame.

But it's not even the Church's standard- she exhorts us to purity and modesty, and gives few details, recognizing that these are not external concepts that can be measured, quantified, or checked off. Rather these are internal spiritual conditions and deeply subjective!!! A virgin who wears a sack and keeps her mind free of the slightest sexual thought can be both immodest and impure. And vice versa. But throughout history the church has been blessed with experts, clerical and lay, eager to fill in the details and tell us otherwise. Whether out of a sense of misogyny or obsessive compulsion or some other kind of anxiety.

 

I agree - it could be reasonably argued that people wait to learn anything more than the barest mechanics until they're engaged, if people are getting married right out of adolescence. Part of it, I think, has to do with an old idea that people weren't considered real adults until they were married ("settled down"), but now we've moved to a culture where nearly all the traditional markers of adulthood have flown out the window.  Is it really appropriate for a single 30 year old to know as much as a 17 year old when it comes to sex? Regardless of whether or not we come to the conclusion that it's more okay for 30-somethings to make out than teenagers, the fact is there's a big hole in the way we're going about addressing chastity among adults, and it only seems natural to me that marriage can't be the only way people get to be "allowed" to know things. How would priests or religious counsel married couples, if this were true? 

[the171]

what the hell is happening in here

[oremus1]

@Futurepriest, you might be in a minority with those views  BUT you only need to find wife. Out of the hundreds of catholic girls you know and have yet to meet in the coming years, you only need ONE. So do not worry about the probability!! and if she really supports your views (or even shares them) she will also have her own boundaries to enable you to maintain those beliefs. i shall indeed pray to St Joseph for you. this is so wonderful that a young man will have such views. instead of telling him he is wrong, we should pray for him. quite a few protestants do this. not sure how common it is among catholics.
 

ABC, your snide tone is frankly sad for someone in a public vocation like your own.

 

I have seen a few such posts by ABC and I often think the exact same thing.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I tried making out a few times, i don't really like it, to me it isn't that intimate it made me uncomfortable and activated the sex instinct because it was so uncomfortable and the sex drive to me is a natural response to serious uncomfortablility, to seek comfort when uncomfrtable, it is grotty and messy, and what does it prove that loving words and other actions outside of sex can't prove?  All in all i think making out is a sexual thing from my experience and if used should only be in marriage. This is all just my opinion though.

 

God is GOOD.

 

 

Bad grammer and un looked at post. I meant Making out is grotty and messy and not the sex drive. My apologise.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Oh by the way i have said it before and will say it again on and off and i'm reminding everyone the last two days. Garbage in garbage out what goes in must come out. Ya'll watch to much hollywood where the bride and groom start tounging each other when the priest says "You may kiss the bride". YOu will turn into what you eat eventually to some degree or another. :( At least pray everytime before you watch a movie or t.v. series that you may not be strayed , deluded or confused by the content of fantasy and than if you wan't to be hardcore after praying flick some holy water at the box and sign your self with the holy water. Please Please Please start doing something like this every time you entertain yourself with t.v, movies,pop 40 or the theatre.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye