cmaD2006 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Let's not forget the fact that making out can lead to Edited by moderator. The only rightful place for Edited by moderator is in Catholic marriage with an openness for having many children My advice is: emotional intimacy leads to temptation to physical intimacy. only date when you are, in all practical respects, ready to get married and havce kids. yopu have finished school, have a job, live on your own etc.. the only proper reason for dating is looking for a husband/wife. not haveing a boy/girlfriend to look cool at school. then, dating should not be for fun only, it is for dicserning if they are the right spose. spend time with each others families, and in public. and in church. if you spend less time alone there will be less temtation to want to get hot and heavy Edited by moderator. Then re-evaluate after about 6 - 12 months. if you want to marry, seek a priest. if you dont want to marry, then go your sepateate ways. no need to prolong for many yewars, that will lead to sin and is a waste of time. Can people refrain from using the red "Edited by moderator" text? A mod who reads this would go off and research to see what happened (why the edits were made without a note; I just did that). We get enough work to do ... thank you very much :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Can people refrain from using the red "Edited by moderator" text? A mod who reads this would go off and research to see what happened (why the edits were made without a note; I just did that). We get enough work to do ... thank you very much :). What kind of Catholic would I be if I let moderators fall into idleness? Is idleness not the Devil's playing field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrideofChrist Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Errr..... I certainly hope that CVs don't need to know too much on this topic. Since for them even going on a date and/or courting, even chastely, is probably a mortal sin. That would be rather disturbing... Most CVs have dated before their consecration. Most know most if not all of what was said in the link I posted. It's not wrong for adults to read; it's just not appropriate for minors to read without their parents' approval because they are the primary educators in this delicate area. Innocence is not ignorance. CVs are public models of what it means to be virginal. How can we be non-scrupulous and be chaste without knowing the parameters? I don't know if you realize this, but ignorance in this area can breed scrupulosity or ridiculous customs that are not rooted in anthropologically sound principles. For example, one famous religious community wears strange underclothing because otherwise they'd be "immodest" if the wind kicked up a bit. That's scrupulosity, not modesty. The holier a person is, the more pure they become. "To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled." How can we be doctors without knowing anatomy, psychologists without knowing certain deviancies, social workers without picking up on quite a lot, catechists without teens asking us how we can possibly remain virgins and be fulfilled, spiritual directors and not know about human nature, and so on? As s exual creatures, we need to know our boundaries. We need to know what works for us and general rules for our interactions with others based on human nature. I am glad that I never crossed boundaries when dating because french kissing or other activities could have rendered me ineligible for becoming a consecrated virgin. Yes, being a CV is serious business because we are imaging the Virginal Church herself and we are expected to be as wise as serpents but as innocent as doves- just like the Church. Edited February 20, 2014 by abrideofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 There seems to be a lot written about not doing much of anything before marriage, and most studies I've read show that most people don't wait (even among Catholics) until marriage. Would it be worth it to spend any time giving people skills or tools to help them resist temptation or going further when they're somewhere between "chaste kiss" and "marital relations"? Does everyone just get too caught up "in the moment" for any of this to be worth anything? I mean, we tell people to just not get themselves in that situation, which is certainly good advice. But it doesn't seem...realistic? Practical? Helpful? I'm not sure, what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruciatacara Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Can people refrain from using the red "Edited by moderator" text? A mod who reads this would go off and research to see what happened (why the edits were made without a note; I just did that). We get enough work to do ... thank you very much :). Ah yeah, but you get all that prestige, honour and glory from being a mod (not to mention power). To those who are given much, much is expected!! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Errr..... I certainly hope that CVs don't need to know too much on this topic. Since for them even going on a date and/or courting, even chastely, is probably a mortal sin. That would be rather disturbing... i know in the USA there are some CVs who belong to 'singles groups', who even attended their consecrtion. they use singles groups to meet with other singles, and they have trips out and stuff. so they do need to know boundaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oremus1 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Can people refrain from using the red "Edited by moderator" text? A mod who reads this would go off and research to see what happened (why the edits were made without a note; I just did that). We get enough work to do ... thank you very much :). sorry i thought this was the phatmass euphemism for things not suited for young ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 There seems to be a lot written about not doing much of anything before marriage, and most studies I've read show that most people don't wait (even among Catholics) until marriage. Would it be worth it to spend any time giving people skills or tools to help them resist temptation or going further when they're somewhere between "chaste kiss" and "marital relations"? Does everyone just get too caught up "in the moment" for any of this to be worth anything? I mean, we tell people to just not get themselves in that situation, which is certainly good advice. But it doesn't seem...realistic? Practical? Helpful? I'm not sure, what do you guys think? I think because it depends on the couple. My fiancee is often excited (in the physical sense...and nothing more than that) when I'm in the room. To completely avoid that we'd not be able to see each other....or even text at times. It's not something he has full control over and part of it is just reptilian. But he mentally knows thats it, he calms down. We can have times of cuddling, kissing and in general being very intimate in a total non-sex way. But it works for US. If he was more excitable (so to speak) then it wouldn't work for us. There are certain things I avoid when we kiss/cuddle and there are certain things he avoids. It's not going to be the same for everyone. To some men/women even a light kiss could be enough to get them totally going. For others the boundaries are much higher or have different no go points. I don't feel comfortable posting our "no go" points on the internet....but I'm sure for some of my friends they would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 To some men/women even a light kiss could be enough to get them totally going. For others the boundaries are much higher or have different no go points. I don't feel comfortable posting our "no go" points on the internet....but I'm sure for some of my friends they would be fine. Exactly. :like: It's a very nuanced, individualized thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Sadly I think the poster who remarked about "chaste peck only" guys having problems with their sexuality is close to the mark. Not all but many that I've met. Maybe because they do tend to come from unusual subcultures. I was a huge maker - outer. Not that I made out with every guy I went on a date with but my husband and I dated for 2 years. We were adults though so I think what Missy said about age making a difference is spot on. Probably not a great idea if you are an inexperienced person. But still, somehow the concept of a guy who never even once picks up the woman he loves in his arms and shares a passionate kiss with her. - I feel like there might be something wrong there. I agree with everyone who has said that this issue isn't set in stone. It bothers me when we reduce chastity to a list of actions that are and aren't permitted, as this makes it sound as though you're trying to figure out how close you can skirt to a line without crossing it. Chastity is first and foremost an attitude of the heart. It's possible to never kiss or do anything sexual and still be an unchaste person. My first boyfriend was like this. I didn't want to date him, but at nineteen years old I was shy and I struggled to say no to people. He was obsessed with sex. Even holding hands provoked long involved moral musings about what was and wasn't acceptable, and he wanted to talk about this all the time. That's not chastity at all. I think most people are aware of this, deep down, but some people still want every little thing to be set in stone - either because they want to get as close as they legitimately can to sex, or because they suffer from scruples and they want to shy away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinytherese Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 Consecrated virgin here, dropping in. CVs naturally need to know how to preserve their virginity and not fall into sins of impurity. This article on EWTN might be of help for everyone because it explains how arousing activities are not to be done outside of marriage: http://www.ewtn.com/library/FAMILY/PARENT.TXT I'd suggest reading the whole thing because it's very good but in the meantime, here's part of a paragraph from it: Finally, if and when an adolescent refuses to recognize the danger to himself or another (the latter is sometimes more difficult to see), parents must indicate the reason behind training in modesty. "These attractive parts of the body are used in the preliminaries of the marriage act (or, the act from which children come). Since you are not married, you have no right to either the marriage act or to the preliminaries. So be sensible, guard your eyes, refuse to follow the fashion of nudity, of petting, passionate kissing, etc., for all these things have the same reasons against them." What we're talking about though are boundaries for a dating/courting couples and engaged couples though. Consecrated virgins wouldn't be dating since dating is what you do when you are discerning if you should marry someone or not. Since consecrated virgins can't get married, this discussion doesn't apply to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazeingstar Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 What we're talking about though are boundaries for a dating/courting couples and engaged couples though. Consecrated virgins wouldn't be dating since dating is what you do when you are discerning if you should marry someone or not. Since consecrated virgins can't get married, this discussion doesn't apply to them. Also, much of the extra quote is valid for "adolescents". We should be teaching 12-18yo's that while attraction is healthy, being mutually exclusive and preparing for marriage is a big deal and that what singular relationships are for. I sometimes think parents have forgotten they can say no. My goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 What kind of Catholic would I be if I let moderators fall into idleness? Is idleness not the Devil's playing field? ... there is no rest for the weary; well, except when I am out of network. rotfl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrideofChrist Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 What we're talking about though are boundaries for a dating/courting couples and engaged couples though. Consecrated virgins wouldn't be dating since dating is what you do when you are discerning if you should marry someone or not. Since consecrated virgins can't get married, this discussion doesn't apply to them. I have already explained that many CVs are in positions where we advise or teach people on these matters and it is imperative that we ourselves know what is permitted and not permitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrideofChrist Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Also, much of the extra quote is valid for "adolescents". We should be teaching 12-18yo's that while attraction is healthy, being mutually exclusive and preparing for marriage is a big deal and that what singular relationships are for. I sometimes think parents have forgotten they can say no. My goodness. I am sorry that you feel the quote is valid only for adolescents. Here is my reading of it, with bolded parts for emphasis: "Since you are not married, you have no right to either the marriage act or to the preliminaries. So be sensible, guard your eyes, refuse to follow the fashion of nudity, of petting, passionate kissing, etc., for all these things have the same reasons against them." I think it is saying that the reasons against petting, passionate kissing, etc. are that they are preliminaries to the marriage act. Naturally, even married couples have to be aware of this because it is unlawful for them to engage in foreplay without culminating in the marital act. The article I linked to was lengthy but it gave different principles and examples of sinful and virtuous actions that are applicable to people of all ages. In fact, you could call the article a reproductive morality class for parents who have the duty of imparting age-appropriate teachings so that by the children are 18, they have learned what is right and what is wrong and how to discern between the two. That is why copious examples are given so that by the time you have finished reading the article, you have a very good formation for knowing how to behave as adults in serious relationships. Getting engaged or being older does not excuse behaviors that are meant to be arousing by their nature (even if some people are physically less arousable... it is absurd to say that one can fondle or french kiss just because oneself and one's fiance are not aroused by the action just one can't say that fornication is okay because one doesn't get satisfaction out of it). Edited February 20, 2014 by abrideofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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