Kiev Is Under Revolution

[NotreDame]

Putin doesn't like it when ethnic groups in former soviet satellite countries want to break away...

 

For example:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

 

Now that the Olympics have ended... Putin, on cue:

 

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/feb/26/us-urges-outside-actors-to-respect-ukraine/

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House is urging "outside actors" to respect Ukraine's sovereignty, as neighboring Russia prepares for massive military exercises.

 

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the U.S. is aware of Russia's plans to launch the military maneuvers. While Russian officials said the exercises were unrelated to the tensions in Ukraine, these exercise will take place near the shared border between the countries.

 

[...]

[PhuturePriest]

Now that the Olympics have ended... Putin, on cue:

 

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/feb/26/us-urges-outside-actors-to-respect-ukraine/

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House is urging "outside actors" to respect Ukraine's sovereignty, as neighboring Russia prepares for massive military exercises.

 

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said the U.S. is aware of Russia's plans to launch the military maneuvers. While Russian officials said the exercises were unrelated to the tensions in Ukraine, these exercise will take place near the shared border between the countries.

 

[...]

 

Aaaaannnd Russia invaded.

Edited March 1, 2014 by FuturePriest387

[Ice_nine]

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House is urging "outside actors" to respect Ukraine's sovereignty, as neighboring Russia prepares for massive military exercises.

 

 

hmm how peculiar.

 

 

Let me know if I'm just wearing my pseudo-libertarian cynicism glasses, I'll readily admit I don't know much about this conflict and probably shouldn't be mouthing off, but this is the internet: The Ukrainian people want a closer relationship to the West and the US so of course our gov't is like "zomg Russia leave the Ukraine ALONE" but you can flooping guarantee that if the situation was reversed (an ally of the US wanting to align with Russia or maybe even China) our gov't would stick its nose all up in their bizniss. As if the US gov't respects the sovereignty of other nations.

[NotreDame]

hmm how peculiar.

 

 

Let me know if I'm just wearing my pseudo-libertarian cynicism glasses,

 

I think it's the glasses because what you described doesn't bear a lot of resemblance to actual events (and they are probably "quasi-libertarian", not "pseudo" libertarian, "pseudo" means fake.)

 

At a high-level: The Ukraine people (well, the western half) wanted to be closer with the west.  The president and the eastern half did not.  The western half kicked the president out of the capital (which was in the west.)  Now Russia is putting troops in the eastern half and obama's all "where did Hillary's reset button go?" asking everybody to play nice.

 

Hillary hitting the "reset" button after Obama was elected:

 

 

Of course, not only was it dumb and counterproductive, but they couldn't even translate "reset" correctly.

Edited March 1, 2014 by NotreDame

[NotreDame]

More on the "reset button"....  This was an actual campaign poster put out by the Obama campaign:

 

Ironically, you can see Russia from parts of Alaska and Russia is our #1 geopolitical foe - as Obama learned when he started erasing that red line he drew in Syria. 

 

Another example of life imitating parody... In 2008 Sarah Palin had this to say about Russia invading the Ukraine:

 

After the Russian Army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama's reaction was one of indecision and moral equivalence, the kind of response that would only encourage Russia's Putin to invade Ukraine next.

 

Of course she was ridiculed at the time... Why, I'm not sure, since Russia invades the ukraine territory about every 100 years, it should be anything but far-fetched.

 

I'm not posting this to score political points, I'm posting it because it's genuinely worthy of reflection.  I do worry that, on the whole, freedom around the world is losing ground and there is a general global destabilization.  I don't think the current Administration is stupid (though as this campaign poster is an example, they'll take advantage of the voters' stupidity), but they don't seem interested in promoting democracy abroad, which has been a general tenet of American foreign policy for over 100 years.

[4588686]

Right.  So my area of concentration in school was Russian politics and specifically the legal developments that occurred in Russia as a results of the security challenges they've faced in Chechnya and non-Russian, post-Soviet spaces.  I've also met a friend of Anna Politkofskaya and it regularly harassed by the FSB.  I also know people who have worked in Russia and studied the security apparatus of the USSR and now Russia for decades.  

 

I think that Putin is a genuinely bad person.  More importantly, I think that he is undoubtedly guilty of severe international war crimes in Chechnya and other areas of the Caucasus.  I think he's also probably guilty of a number of serious crimes under domestic Russian law.  

 

I just want to preface this comment with those comments so nobody accuses the resident leftist of being sympathetic of Russia because COMMUNISM.

 

The idea that Russia is our number one geopolitical foe is silly.  Russia is a serious security threat, more because it's a country that is institutionally rotting from the inside.  Russia is too corrupt to get the basic supplies that their helicopter pilots needs for their Missions in Chechnya (one reason causalities for the much larger and better supplied Russian Army has been so high in the extremely weak and impoverished Chechnya).  Russia is morphing into a quasi-fascist state that is profoundly corrupt.  That makes it a serious security threat.  But it is hardly our top geo-political foe.  

[PhuturePriest]

Right.  So my area of concentration in school was Russian politics and specifically the legal developments that occurred in Russia as a results of the security challenges they've faced in Chechnya and non-Russian, post-Soviet spaces.  I've also met a friend of Anna Politkofskaya and it regularly harassed by the FSB.  I also know people who have worked in Russia and studied the security apparatus of the USSR and now Russia for decades.  

 

I think that Putin is a genuinely bad person.  More importantly, I think that he is undoubtedly guilty of severe international war crimes in Chechnya and other areas of the Caucasus.  I think he's also probably guilty of a number of serious crimes under domestic Russian law.  

 

I just want to preface this comment with those comments so nobody accuses the resident leftist of being sympathetic of Russia because COMMUNISM.

 

The idea that Russia is our number one geopolitical foe is silly.  Russia is a serious security threat, more because it's a country that is institutionally rotting from the inside.  Russia is too corrupt to get the basic supplies that their helicopter pilots needs for their Missions in Chechnya (one reason causalities for the much larger and better supplied Russian Army has been so high in the extremely weak and impoverished Chechnya).  Russia is morphing into a quasi-fascist state that is profoundly corrupt.  That makes it a serious security threat.  But it is hardly our top geo-political foe.  

 

Who do you think is our greatest geo-political threat? Not arguing, just genuinely curious.

[4588686]

Who do you think is our greatest geo-political threat? Not arguing, just genuinely curious.

 

 

I honestly think it's a silly question to ask and a silly designation.  I really don't think it's a designator that reaches substantive coherence.  But if one were to accept the assumptions and baggage that usually goes with that sort of question the I'd say China, which is actively expanding it's global hegemony rather than making clumsy efforts to reclaim space it once dominated 30 years ago, as Russia is currently doing.  

[PhuturePriest]

I honestly think it's a silly question to ask and a silly designation.  I really don't think it's a designator that reaches substantive coherence.  But if one were to accept the assumptions and baggage that usually goes with that sort of question the I'd say China, which is actively expanding it's global hegemony rather than making clumsy efforts to reclaim space it once dominated 30 years ago, as Russia is currently doing.  

 

Pretty much Russia's mentality right now:

[4588686]

I don't mean that you're silly for asking it.  It's just one of those questions that's constantly thrown around (including by meeeee at times) but I don't think means anything.  

[PhuturePriest]

I don't mean that you're silly for asking it.  It's just one of those questions that's constantly thrown around (including by meeeee at times) but I don't think means anything.  

 

I liked the uncharacteristic "meeeee" you threw in. :P

 

I've never even heard of the term "geo-political foe" until today, to be honest with you. :P

[NotreDame]

I just want to preface this comment with those comments so nobody accuses the resident leftist of being sympathetic of Russia because COMMUNISM.

 

Well, no real communist outside of Russia would be dumb enough to publicly side with Putin anyway on account of the horrible PR, so that was never a risk, but thank you anyway for the background.

 

The idea that Russia is our number one geopolitical foe is silly. 

 

It's not silly at all.  Recently Russia has been the primary state openly interfering with our diplomatic goals.  Period.  In that sense they are or should be our #1 geopolitical foe - at least from the State Dept's perspective.

 

Are they our biggest threat from a security perspective?  No, that's arguably one of the Islamic countries like Iran (or IMO Saudi Arabia.)  Long term?  Yes, it's probably China.  But right now the country that is doing the most to get in our way of addressing these issues is Russia.

 

So you can disagree with the idea, but I don't see how it is silly.  It seems quite reasonable from the diplomatic perspective.

 

As an aside... Crimea has been part of russia on and off... it's also ethnically russian.  Do you think it ought to just be part of Russia?  For that matter, should the eastern part of the Ukraine be split off from the west?  Interested in your opinion since you studied the subject in school.

Edited March 1, 2014 by NotreDame

[Ice_nine]

"pseudo" means fake

 

yup