Video Game Mods

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Does anyone know any thing about mods(free, player made downloadable content) for video games? As in, are they typically legal/sinful? There was one I wanted to download for an older Star Wars game. I know they were illegal for the first game in the series, at least originally. I know mods were a banned topic on their (Bioware's), but  forums. I think I heard that they took a use them, but we aren't responsible for any problems appraoch. I'm not sure about that last part though, just that it was a banned topic. Although, in a newer addition of the game (one that comes in a collection of multiple games) the license agreement includes rules governing "new levels," which is another name for mods. With the sequel, mods were never a banned topic on the developer's (Obsidian) forum. At least, not any more. There are multiple topics about it on the front page. None are locked. In addition, I believe one of the developers congratulated a mod team for releasing a large restoration mod. SInce the developers wanted to do this in a patch,but Lucastarts didn't allow them, I don't know about LA's oppinion. Granted, I'm not so sure as to how relevant it is. From what I know, Lucasarts doesn't exists anylonger, as a game studio. I think EA now fully owns the rights to making Star Wars video games.

 

Lastly, there are two passages in the License agreement (for the sequel) that make me curious.THey are "You may not... modify or prepare derivative works of the Software, except as otherwise may be allowed herein... [you may not] design or distribute unauthorized levels." This from the original one; I don't know if it changed for the newer, Steam version. I dont know if they would, but it could be possible.

 

So in this case, what's your oppinions?

 

Thanks

[arfink]

I know you've asked plenty of video game questions before, and I wanna say I think you're probably being overly scrupulous with all of this.

 

Video games mods have always been and always will be legal. If what you say of their terms is true, that would likely infringe on free use in the United States. If you live outside the United States this might or might not apply.

 

Now, the only place I know of where a mod could be illegal is under the DMCA, and to be illegal it would have to do one of several things:

 

1: allow the circumvention of encryption or copyright protection built into the game

2: allow for the transmission or re-transmission of copyrighted works

3: contain copies of copyrighted works. This would include textures, audio, meshes, music, code, etc. Usually mods don't have to do this because that stuff is already included in your legally obtained copy of the game.

 

So, it's not illegal or immoral to play mods for games you already own. Go have fun.

Edited February 18, 2014 by arfink

[arfink]

BTW, such passages in EULAs do happen, but generally are in regards to warranty and support. For example, most of these places will not support software with modifications, for obvious reasons. So, double check that's not what they're talking about.

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Thanks for the replies. This is only my third video game post, so I don't think I'm being overly scrupulous. Okay so much maybe a little lol :) Although, I'm not worring so much; I'm just not that familiar with this topic. I should be. I use to do it all the time five years ago, but I haven't really since then.

 

Actually the game I'm least concerned with isthe Bioware one because the version I have actually has rules governing new levels. To me this indicates legality. The one that I do worry about is the Obsidian one (this also happens to be the one I'd want to mod) because they have no such section. The only mention of mods wouldbe those two sections I quoted. I don'tbelieve they are dealing with warrenty and support since they are in a general section about what you cannot do. Although, the game is pretty old, so those two things aren't offered any way. Also, this may not be the same license agreement I agreed to. This one is from the original edition of the game. The one I'd be modding was bought from steam becuase the other one doesn't work with Windows 8. I cannot re-access the newer EULA.

[Tony]

how about  playing Emulated NES games? Nintendo's not exactly making money off of those.. nor do I have any interest in buying new consoles.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Tony

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

how about  playing Emulated NES games? Nintendo's not exactly making money off of those.. nor do I have any interest in buying new consoles.

 

The problem with those is that they are still being sold through things like Xbox Live. So people are making money off of them. Also, emulators involve pirating other people's product, and altering it to fit new consoles. This likely involves revers engineering which is illegal.

[arfink]

The problem with those is that they are still being sold through things like Xbox Live. So people are making money off of them. Also, emulators involve pirating other people's product, and altering it to fit new consoles. This likely involves revers engineering which is illegal.

 

Couple problems with this:

 

First of all, reverse engineering is NOT illegal!

 

Secondly, emulators are a gray area in the law. The emulators themselves are not in any way illegal, and using them to run titles (ROMs) which you already own is also legal under fair-use and even under the DMCA as you are allowed copies for archival and backup, as well as personal use.

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Couple problems with this:

 

First of all, reverse engineering is NOT illegal!

 

Secondly, emulators are a gray area in the law. The emulators themselves are not in any way illegal, and using them to run titles (ROMs) which you already own is also legal under fair-use and even under the DMCA as you are allowed copies for archival and backup, as well as personal use.

 

I'm sure that reverse engineering is illegal. Every license agreement I have looked at forbade it. Also, I know the modding community for the games I'm talking about didn't allow reverse engineering because it would have provoked LucasArts. They thought that if they reverse engineered the games, then it was likely that they would be shut down and unable to continue modding.

Well emulators may be if you own the game, but I'm sure you can't use them to make a game compatible with a different console. For example moving an NES game to the PS4. In addition, it's common for those using emulators to get games for free, that they don't own.

[arfink]

I'm sure that reverse engineering is illegal. Every license agreement I have looked at forbade it. Also, I know the modding community for the games I'm talking about didn't allow reverse engineering because it would have provoked LucasArts. They thought that if they reverse engineered the games, then it was likely that they would be shut down and unable to continue modding.

Well emulators may be if you own the game, but I'm sure you can't use them to make a game compatible with a different console. For example moving an NES game to the PS4. In addition, it's common for those using emulators to get games for free, that they don't own.

 

First of all, do not ever assume that if it's forbidden in a EULA that it's illegal. Software companies would like you to believe a great many things which are you right under Fair Use are illegal and want you to sign them away when you sign the EULA. NES games have no EULA.

 

Secondly, emulation has always been legal, and that includes porting between platforms. If it was not legal then we would not have the vast majority of cross-platform software we enjoy today, including the vast majority of the internet.

 

Do not ever believe that just because it's not the EULA that it must be illegal.

[Tony]

haha didn't think I'd spark a debate. oops

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

First of all, do not ever assume that if it's forbidden in a EULA that it's illegal. Software companies would like you to believe a great many things which are you right under Fair Use are illegal and want you to sign them away when you sign the EULA. NES games have no EULA.

 

Secondly, emulation has always been legal, and that includes porting between platforms. If it was not legal then we would not have the vast majority of cross-platform software we enjoy today, including the vast majority of the internet.

 

Do not ever believe that just because it's not the EULA that it must be illegal.

 

If yousign an EULA then how aren'tyou bound by those terms? It's a contract and the signer agreed to it. Also, porting and reverse engineering have to be problematic,atleast if they're done without official sanction. Otherwise I see no reason why mod sights would forbid mods that did those things. True I don't have much experience with the NES, but I feel that it would follow similar prinicples when players do those things. It would be different if an actual company got permission to do so.

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

 What do you all think about what I posted about the developers of the second game?

 

 

Edited February 21, 2014 by Poorly Catechized Convert

[arfink]

If yousign an EULA then how aren'tyou bound by those terms? It's a contract and the signer agreed to it. Also, porting and reverse engineering have to be problematic,atleast if they're done without official sanction. Otherwise I see no reason why mod sights would forbid mods that did those things. True I don't have much experience with the NES, but I feel that it would follow similar prinicples when players do those things. It would be different if an actual company got permission to do so.

 

If you sign it then presumably, yes. However there have been people who have sued and won over predatory or deceptive EULA agreements and there is plenty of disagreement over whether a EULA can be binding if it says you're signing away something that is your right under the law.

 

As for why mod sites disallow such things, it's because they usually have a bazillion users and are looking out for places like EA which tend to sue first and ask questions later, even if they're not in the right, because it's more expensive to win a copyright lawsuit than to just avoid one.

 

BTW, emulation is not the same as porting. Emulators are designed to make your computer behave in exactly the same fashion as another computer, for example, the 6502 processor in the NES, meaning that the original games are completely unaltered.
 

[Poorly Catechized Convert]

Thanks. That sort of makes sense. About the emulators: I can see how those would be legal as long as they weren't used yo obtain a game without cost.