How Entrenched Is Homosexuality In The Seminaries?

[Eliakim]

Notre Dame,

I have that book by Damien actually. 

The book deeply disturbs me since it shows the deep seated prevalence of this problem within the Roman Catholic Church.  The fact it goes back to at least the 11th century and shows how the poor chap was basically reduced to begging for help from an out of touch Pope illustrates the reason for this thread:  how deeply entrenched is the homosexual subculture in seminaries?  It seems too many are in on it or at least too compromised to stop it. 

 

As a side note, I briefly looked up seminaries and found this - perhaps typical of the types of men they seem to be attracting and grooming: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hINE7g2h6tQ

 

 

 

E

 

 

[Klarisse]

Notre Dame,
I have that book by Damien actually. 
The book deeply disturbs me since it shows the deep seated prevalence of this problem within the Roman Catholic Church.  The fact it goes back to at least the 11th century and shows how the poor chap was basically reduced to begging for help from an out of touch Pope illustrates the reason for this thread:  how deeply entrenched is the homosexual subculture in seminaries?  It seems too many are in on it or at least too compromised to stop it. 
 
As a side note, I briefly looked up seminaries and found this - perhaps typical of the types of men they seem to be attracting and grooming: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hINE7g2h6tQ
 
 
 
E

 
Hopefully this will make sense, since I'm sick in a way that makes it hard to think, but the use of the word "grooming" makes it sound like the video is being viewed through a lens of it's homosexual because they're seminarians. If that wasn't how the word grooming was intended, just ignore the rest of this and please explain what it means in this context.

What in the video is atypical for a group of college-aged guys coming up with their own video content that makes you feel it's homosexually oriented? They seem a lot like the guys I was around at university, other than being serious about God and less likely to make nerd jokes. Since they're seminarians, not engineering students, I expected that. The direct reference to dating was "Ex-girlfriend" calling a seminarian, so it looks like they're targeting young males who've had girlfriends if anything.
 
The apostolic visitations to the US seminaries had found a homosexual culture in some seminaries in addition to unorthodox teaching, but the second (and last) visitation's report mentioned notable improvements. Naturally, it outlines the problems found the first time around and whether they were addressed. It's available online if you'd like to read it.

[Eliakim]

_{^{Makes it look like a big joke.}} 

 

_{^{If widespread, the hierarchy is filling its ranks with these types that are wholly unprepared to go toe to toe with seasoned wolves wearing the collar.}} 

 

_^E

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

_{^{Makes it look like a big joke.}} 

 

_{^{If widespread, the hierarchy is filling its ranks with these types that are wholly unprepared to go toe to toe with seasoned wolves wearing the collar.}} 

 

_^E

 

First, you are being extremely uncharitable in judging these men as unprepared, unless I am mistaken and you actually know them, which I doubt since you said you found this on a search. 

 

Second, did you watch the whole video and listen to what they said? There is humor in life, there is silliness to allow people to see a video of guys being silly and taking a prideful humor about what they are doing is not being unprepared for "seasoned wolves". It is living with joy, a seminary which does not have laughter in it's halls is one which is spiritually dead.

 

If you see this video as making seminary as a big joke then you missed the point of the video.

[CrossCuT]

I have a question that I posed in another thread but Ill post it here too, is it generally understood that those with SSA are unable to complete the same job task as a priest than a straight man would?

 

Are they less spiritually capable?

Less emotionally capable?

Are people afraid they will turn those under their charge gay?

 

I just want to understand why a SSA man who is 100% dedicated to the church and has taken a vow of chastity like any other priest would not be allowed to enter.

[PhuturePriest]

I have a question that I posed in another thread but Ill post it here too, is it generally understood that those with SSA are unable to complete the same job task as a priest than a straight man would?

 

Are they less spiritually capable?

Less emotionally capable?

Are people afraid they will turn those under their charge gay?

 

I just want to understand why a SSA man who is 100% dedicated to the church and has taken a vow of chastity like any other priest would not be allowed to enter.

 

I believe PadrePioofPietrelcino answered this earlier in the thread, though I may be wrong. He said a man who has a sexual disorder is not supposed to be ordained.

Edited March 28, 2014 by FuturePriest387

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

 

 

Yes, you are correct, this is not how male sexuality works.  A man without a woman masturbates, he does not check out other guys.  However, I've noticed that a lot of women - even some very worldly cosmopolitan women - assumed the opposite about male sexuality. 

 

masturbates huh? not all! In my understanding a male can have sexual uncomfortability with another male without being homosexual, it can be simply large amounts of stress. The action is what makes a man homosexual and also plenty enough men have experimented i'm sure in this regards, and i don't say most, some or half because i don't know, especially ones that have experimented with drugs,alcohol and or pornography, experimenting also doesn't make the person homosexual. I don't recommend experimenting though. But also i have heard reports of some native cultures having initiation ceremonies for boys that involve homosexual intercourse as a one off initiation right but probably never did it again ever, also i am not saying this is good or even ok. And for all your information peeps there are many priests and nuns that have been virgins there whole lives including no masturbation,oral sex and homosexuality, but of course where laymen and women. And i honestly don't believe one iota that homosexual intercourse is in anyway entrenched in the seminary, though i guess there have been times when houses that have multiple priests or monks that have been overcome by the spirit of lust to some degree or another past, present and perhaps future also. And priests take there vow of celibacy very seriously and many succeed through there whole life,world wide, please respect that.

 

Onward christian souls.

 

God iz Good. 

 

P.s. Masturbation = go to confession.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Eliakim i doubt your source is very reliable but also good seeking and it is good you have bought your seeking to others and also i just realised you said sub culture so that means a minority. God bless you brother in christ.

 

Jesus iz LORD. :)

Edited March 28, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Luigi]

I haven't read broadly or deeply about the Church's reasoning behind this, but a couple of ideas come to mind. 

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from praying? No. If he is, indeed, a man of faith, it might even cause him to pray more. 

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from administering the sacraments? No.

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from preaching effectively? Perhaps. Even if he's preaching the everlasting truth, his credibility could very well be undermined if the faithful perceive/believe that he is living out of synch with the gospel.  

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from counseling his parishioners? Perhaps. If he's uncomfortable dealing with other men because he's attracted to them, it might impact his ministry. 

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from being a good role model for the children in his parish? Perhaps. The priest acts "in persona Christi." We have no indication that Christ was homosexual, in spite of what some modern writers and filmmakers would like to believe. Additionally, Jesus was well versed in Judaic law, so one would presume He opposed homosexuality. 

 

There's also the practical aspect that any priest can be assigned to any parish, as deemed necessary by the bishop. And that priests often live together. It's that living together that becomes problematic if any person in the house views other persons in the house as possible sexual partners. It's the same reason we have separate bathrooms and shower rooms for men and women in gyms, pools, etc.  Theoretically, a married man who has vowed to love only his wife and is in fact committed to her should be allowed to shower with the ladies in the ladies' locker room - I mean he's married, he's committed, and all that. But the fact remains that he's human, and a vow is not always strong enough to restrain people from their urges. If we had female priests, I don't see foresee that they'd live in the same rectories as male priests. 

 

Lastly, the Church has about a thousand years of experience with priests. They've lived in virtually every country on the face of the earth, in virtually every culture, in virtually every circumstance of human experience - wars, famine, invasion, peace, rapid social change, rapid technological change, in monasteries and parishes. And the Church has monitored & reflected upon the experiences of many of these priests. So if the Church says that admitting SSA men to the seminary is wrong, I gotta go with what the Church says.   

Edited March 28, 2014 by Luigi

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

By the way good to see you posting again Josh. :buddies:

[LaPetiteSoeur]

I have a question that I posed in another thread but Ill post it here too, is it generally understood that those with SSA are unable to complete the same job task as a priest than a straight man would?

 

Are they less spiritually capable?

Less emotionally capable?

Are people afraid they will turn those under their charge gay?

 

I just want to understand why a SSA man who is 100% dedicated to the church and has taken a vow of chastity like any other priest would not be allowed to enter.

 

I have known many gay priests. The ones I have known (some were older and have now died) and know now are no different from other priests. They don't ~flaunt~ their sexuality. It's a non issue. They lived/live celibate lives and serve in their congregations and taught in schools. 

 

All the way back in 2005, after Pope Benedict made the edict regarding gay priests, the then president of the USCCB said that men who were "not consumed" by their same-sex attractions could still become priests. 

 

LGBTQ people don't turn other people gay. It's not like a catching disease. If you sat next to me, you suddenly wouldn't be gay. Unfortunately, that's a very big assumption made by many people. 

[PhuturePriest]

I have known many gay priests. The ones I have known (some were older and have now died) and know now are no different from other priests. They don't ~flaunt~ their sexuality. It's a non issue. They lived/live celibate lives and serve in their congregations and taught in schools. 

 

All the way back in 2005, after Pope Benedict made the edict regarding gay priests, the then president of the USCCB said that men who were "not consumed" by their same-sex attractions could still become priests. 

 

LGBTQ people don't turn other people gay. It's not like a catching disease. If you sat next to me, you suddenly wouldn't be gay. Unfortunately, that's a very big assumption made by many people. 

 

Absolutely. The statement is very vague for a reason. Persons with "deep-seated same-sex attractions" is incredibly vague and they're supposed to do it on a case-by-case basis. There's absolutely nothing that says men with even the smallest attraction to men are not allowed.

 

And that assumption quite honestly amazes me. I have gay friends who I hug all the time, and I've yet to catch a "gay disease". 

[CrossCuT]

He said a man who has a sexual disorder is not supposed to be ordained.

But why?

 

I haven't read broadly or deeply about the Church's reasoning behind this, but a couple of ideas come to mind. 

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from praying? No. If he is, indeed, a man of faith, it might even cause him to pray more. 

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from administering the sacraments? No.

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from preaching effectively? Perhaps. Even if he's preaching the everlasting truth, his credibility could very well be undermined if the faithful perceive/believe that he is living out of synch with the gospel.  

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from counseling his parishioners? Perhaps. If he's uncomfortable dealing with other men because he's attracted to them, it might impact his ministry. But what about straight priests being attracted to women? This example is already occurring for priests who are straight yet NO ONE questions their ability in counseling parishioners. I am sure that if a priest were to be attracted to a particular female, then he would take the necessary steps to be as professional as possible. Why is homosexuality all of a sudden some uncontrollable desire? If straight priests are held to a certain standard, why cant homosexual priests be too? What is the difference?

 

Would homosexuality prevent a priest from being a good role model for the children in his parish? Perhaps. The priest acts "in persona Christi." We have no indication that Christ was homosexual, in spite of what some modern writers and filmmakers would like to believe. Additionally, Jesus was well versed in Judaic law, so one would presume He opposed homosexuality. Why would they be a bad role model? If a priest happened to have SSA but was completely, 100% faithful to ALL church teaching...why would this make him unable to be a good role model? Good role models come in all shapes and we know that even in the  bible, there were GOOD people who were not even christian. Gods love transcends that and is not limited to straight people.

 

There's also the practical aspect that any priest can be assigned to any parish, as deemed necessary by the bishop. And that priests often live together. It's that living together that becomes problematic if any person in the house views other persons in the house as possible sexual partners. It's the same reason we have separate bathrooms and shower rooms for men and women in gyms, pools, etc.  Theoretically, a married man who has vowed to love only his wife and is in fact committed to her should be allowed to shower with the ladies in the ladies' locker room - I mean he's married, he's committed, and all that. But the fact remains that he's human, and a vow is not always strong enough to restrain people from their urges. If we had female priests, I don't see foresee that they'd live in the same rectories as male priests. Yes obviously it would be harder if a certain homosexual priest found himself attracted to another priest, but you are assuming they have no control, again. I think that is a very unfair assumption. You cant generalize, these things need to be taken at a case by case basis. If a particular homosexual priest found himself attracted, he would be expected to take the necessary steps to avoid the near occasion of sin and being that he is a PRIEST, I am sure he can decide that himself. He is an adult. He could either remove himself from the situation or something else.

 

Lastly, the Church has about a thousand years of experience with priests. They've lived in virtually every country on the face of the earth, in virtually every culture, in virtually every circumstance of human experience - wars, famine, invasion, peace, rapid social change, rapid technological change, in monasteries and parishes. And the Church has monitored & reflected upon the experiences of many of these priests. So if the Church says that admitting SSA men to the seminary is wrong, I gotta go with what the Church says.   I understand. But I think the reason for them not wanting it is not  because of all the wars, famine, peace, social change...its because they assume homosexual priests want to have sex with every man they see. It seems pretty clear from your post that you feel that way. That somehow homosexual priests just cant function in a social environment with other males without wanting to tap that....or even be role models? Insanity.

 

 

I have known many gay priests. The ones I have known (some were older and have now died) and know now are no different from other priests. They don't ~flaunt~ their sexuality. It's a non issue. They lived/live celibate lives and serve in their congregations and taught in schools. 

 

All the way back in 2005, after Pope Benedict made the edict regarding gay priests, the then president of the USCCB said that men who were "not consumed" by their same-sex attractions could still become priests. 

 

LGBTQ people don't turn other people gay. It's not like a catching disease. If you sat next to me, you suddenly wouldn't be gay. Unfortunately, that's a very big assumption made by many people. 

 

Thank you for your post!

In this culture where we are shifting and adaption along with new ideas, I find it very difficult to fit in with my fellow catholics as they seem to buy into horrible stereotypes or treat homosexuals as if they were senseless beasts of pleasure or something. As if the mere fact they HAVE SSA means they are bound to corrupt souls...Im pretty sure there are a couple of homosexuals on PM (Frannie for example) who have no intention of turning people gay OR corrupting your soul. 

Edited March 28, 2014 by CrossCuT

[Lilllabettt]

A degree of sexual integration is required of aspirants to the priesthood before they enter formation. In today's world it is difficult enough for a "typical" young man to achieve a sufficient level of integration, let alone one who is dealing with disordered sexuality. That is not to say it can't be done.  But it adds another layer of difficulty to discernment, on top of a host of issues that all young men must negotiate re: sexuality, celibacy and their call. Seminary formation and priesthood itself are not cake walks. They may very well imperil the souls of men who are not prepared for them.  The authorities are responsible for making sure those who embark on the journey do so in sea-worthy boats.

 

 

[CrossCuT]

A degree of sexual integration is required of aspirants to the priesthood before they enter formation. In today's world it is difficult enough for a "typical" young man to achieve a sufficient level of integration, let alone one who is dealing with disordered sexuality. That is not to say it can't be done.  But it adds another layer of difficulty to discernment, on top of a host of issues that all young men must negotiate re: sexuality, celibacy and their call. Seminary formation and priesthood itself are not cake walks. They may very well imperil the souls of men who are not prepared for them.  The authorities are responsible for making sure those who embark on the journey do so in sea-worthy boats.

 

Concur. 

We cant apply a generalization here. This needs to be approached case by case and to be done between the candidate, his adviser, and God. If a reasonable conclusion is reached that a candidate is not prepared or will not be able to handle the priestly duties given whatever spiritual, physical state they are in, then that candidate will probably not proceed into the priesthood. However, if a candidate does find with the guidance of their spiritual adviser that they are sound in body and soul to complete the task then God speed!