How Entrenched Is Homosexuality In The Seminaries?

[LaPetiteSoeur]

Gays should stick to buying up low-income housing areas and rebuilding them into ridiculously expensive gayborhoods. At least that helps someone.

 

so gentrification which harms the poor already living in those areas? also the stereotype that we're rich has been disproven:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-gay-affluence/284570/

http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/headlines/beyond-stereotypes-poverty-in-the-lgbt-community/

[ImageTrinity]

 

It's not that I don't think God could have created the beauty in nature, but the fact that nature seems so unorganized. If I could ask God anything, I'd ask "why?"

 

Really? As a fellow biologist, I'm often amazed at the incredible orderliness of nature. Do you mind my asking what about it seems unorganized to you?

[Fidei Defensor]

Really? As a fellow biologist, I'm often amazed at the incredible orderliness of nature. Do you mind my asking what about it seems unorganized to you?

Evolution can be messy as it progresses through nature.

[arfink]

Evolution can be messy as it progresses through nature.

 

Could it perhaps be that our understanding of how the evolution went is just really messy?
 

[Fidei Defensor]

Could it perhaps be that our understanding of how the evolution went is just really messy?
 

Of course that is always a possibility.

[Socrates]

Homosexuality isn't a "disorder" in the more common use of the term.

 

Not sure what "common use" of the term you're referring to, but "disordered" means simply "not properly ordered."

 

The proper ordering of human sexuality is to a person of the opposite sex.  Any other "orientation" is disordered.

 

 

It's simply false to claim, as "Isidore" did, that homosexuality is something completely neutral like race.

Being black or white, or any other race, is not a tendency towards objective immorality.

[Fidei Defensor]

Not sure what "common use" of the term you're referring to, but "disordered" means simply "not properly ordered."

 

The proper ordering of human sexuality is to a person of the opposite sex.  Any other "orientation" is disordered.

 

 

It's simply false to claim, as "Isidore" did, that homosexuality is something completely neutral like race.

Being black or white, or any other race, is not a tendency towards objective immorality.

I meant the use such as "mental disorder" or medical disorder — that is, something which is considered an illness.

 

I'd enjoy to hear you call me disordered to my face; I am a child of God regardless. I can feel the wood of the Cross scrape across my back. 

Edited April 5, 2014 by tardis ad astra

[BigJon16]

Heh, you're asking a philosophy nerd and Thomist if he thinks Thomas' definition is outdated? :P

 

I think it's beautiful and the Church would be crazy to throw it away in favor of something more nebulous. I also think that when you begin to use Thomas' definition of natural you begin to see it in the same places the world sees the word natural. When I think of nature I am immediately bringing to mind a creation that is held in being by God and exists in His love. I think if I was a biologist I would have no problem reconciling this concept with the natural world. But then again, I also like that the Church continues to use fun words like consubstantial and such. ;)

 

 

 

Did you ever read After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre? You'd enjoy it. 

[Not The Philosopher]

Did you ever read After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre? You'd enjoy it. 

 

It is indeed a good read. I should reread it again to see if my thoughts on it have changed over the years.

[AugustineA]

Heh, you're asking a philosophy nerd and Thomist if he thinks Thomas' definition is outdated? :P

 

I think it's beautiful and the Church would be crazy to throw it away in favor of something more nebulous. I also think that when you begin to use Thomas' definition of natural you begin to see it in the same places the world sees the word natural. When I think of nature I am immediately bringing to mind a creation that is held in being by God and exists in His love. I think if I was a biologist I would have no problem reconciling this concept with the natural world. But then again, I also like that the Church continues to use fun words like consubstantial and such. ;)

 

"you have reached prop limits for the day..." >:l

 

I'm about halfway through Nichomachean Ethics, and Aristotle seems to have the same definition of natural. Funny I was wondering how useful it is to study the old pagan philosophers before St. Thomas. Maybe it's more useful that I thought.. 

[Benedictus]

The argument that something maybe biologically natural, and therefore normal or to be accepted brings its own problems  It implies all common, even prevalent, things that are of biological nature are good for us. Sickness and death are prime examples of something natural. They are fairly common occurrences, natural and a norm. But I don't think anyone would deem them good, or stop in their efforts to say these things aren't desirable. But people know when they have a physical illness and want help to manage or treat the problem.

In the same way there are inclinations, attitudes and problems within the soul which aren't intrinsically good for us, even if we are naturally  influenced to want to act on them. For these we should go to God for love and rest. The problem is many people refuse to do so, or think they've no problem at all. Or that there's no God that offers them rest and solace. Spiritual decay and wounds then manifest in that person, and before you know it this has a negative impact on other people. In that sense moral decay is contagious. I don't think the Pope is unaware of this. He has used the 'field hospital' analogy for people souls. He is clear the church should help guide, heal and treat the wounded and that Jesus is the one we all need. For this compassion and love is key -  People react better to honey rather than vinegar.  But sometimes the medicine just has a bitter after taste. We shouldn't tell people that all is well if it is not.  If we love people, truly, then they deserve the truth (the Gospel) to be said  so they can make any progress with their situation. Anything else is a lie and leads them nowhere good.

[Socrates]

I meant the use such as "mental disorder" or medical disorder — that is, something which is considered an illness.

 

I'd enjoy to hear you call me disordered to my face; I am a child of God regardless. I can feel the wood of the Cross scrape across my back. 

 

 A disorder need not be purely mental or medical.

 

Of course, today's society for the most part--contrary to the Church--does not think there is any intrinsic order or purpose to human sexuality (other than pleasure), and thus does not see homosexual inclinations as disordered.

 

I'm not using "disordered" as an insult or slur, simply clarifying some truths which are being denied or confused.

A person is not disordered - the homosexual inclinations are.  This isn't just my opinion, but is right there in the Catechism, so you can take it up with the Church.

 

We all have disordered inclinations - result of original sin and all.  Peace, brother.

[Fidei Defensor]

 

A person is not disordered - the homosexual inclinations are.

That's all I wanted to hear from you.