Nuns That Don't Require You To Have Higher Education?

[Sister Marie]

I suspect that many on this Phorum and I would have different opinions on what a middle of the road community is. I say this because, on other occasions, any community affiliated with LCWR has been dismissed, regardless of the fact that its constitution by definition has been approved by the Vatican, and has likely been in existence for a long time.

I personally believe that, when Jesus said that "my Father's mansion has many rooms," he was celebrating the diversity of ways in which people are touched by, and glorify, God. So can we celebrate this, rather than dismiss this and be critical.

Having said that, some communities that would have real difficulty accepting candidates without degrees today are the IHMs (of both Michigan and Scranton), the Sisters of Mercy of the Americas, the Dominicans of Hope and of Adrian (I think it's true of others, but can't be sure), and the Sisters of St.Joseph of Carondelet. There are others. These communities MIGHT accept someone without a degree, but it would be exceptional.

 

Hi Nunsuch!  You are right that communities on this board who are affiliated with the LCWR are often overlooked or dismissed because of some fundamental misunderstandings of those who don't have experience with religious life.  I also agree with you that the Father's mansion has many rooms and I'm grateful for the witness of different communities for different things.  I have friends in both the Scranton and Monroe IHMs.  I've worked with the Sisters of Mercy and the Sisters of St. Joseph as well in educational settings and its been a great experience for me.  We have much more in common than people think.  

 

Back to education - I still don't think those type of communities make education a requirement in that you cannot discern or enter if you don't have a college degree.  Usually the women who are discerning with them are not entering right out of high school and so there has to be some question of "What have you been doing with yourself for the past five or ten or fifteen or twenty years?"  Many of those women will have completed an education.  Some won't have done so but will have work or ministry experiences.  If they have neither an education nor work/ministry experience a red flag is definitely raised.  They expect people to have done something because they've had time to do something.  

 

I think your last statement is definitely true - it would be exceptional for them to accept someone without a college degree but the reason is more because they are dealing with women in their late 20s and 30s who would've had time to complete an education.  Some of these types of communities also do not require one to be debt free and the community takes on the loans of the new sisters because, again, their education would have been necessary for ministry anyway.

 

Nunsuch,

 

There is some confusion about the nature of the LCWR, as Sister Marie has previously said. The LCWR has no authority over individual communities, not to the extent where they can police their constitutions or way of life etc.

 

The loss of common mission, and community life, in a lot of communities is a cause for concern, since it's led to the decline of religious life in America.

 

Suppose a community's mission is to teach, and they decide they would rather work at JC Penny's what do you think happens to the mission?  or if people live in apartments instead of in common, the community can fall apart, since the sisters do not interact much.

 

My superior is a former member of the LCWR and she knows what the issues are.

 

 

Savvy, I would caution against attributing lack of vocations to those very vague causes.  There are a lot of cultural and societal issues that have contributed to a lack of vocations and many communities are in transition.  Transition is not a bad thing but it can look bleak and messy when it is happening!  Mission is not static - it changes as the Church and the times change. Anyway, I don't want to get into this too much because its off the original topic!

 

Savvy, yes, I know what the issues are, and all I am saying is that there is a huge range of communities in LCWR.  As for "common mission," some communities have never had that (Sisters of Mercy, Sisters of St. Joseph, many others).  So not having it now is not a betrayal of their tradition in any way.  Others have reinterpreted their charism and mission (not the same thing) in light of modern circumstances.  

 

While I realize that wearing a habit is important to some people, and perhaps the majority on this Phorum, it is not for everyone, and I don't think that is indicative of one's seriousness of spiritual purpose. My point is: thank God (literally!) that there is a diversity of expressions of religious life, so that everyone called can find a place where they can best respond to that call.  Having visited and worked with literally dozens of religious congregations, I have tremendous respect for them all.  I have also gone on retreat with contemplatives both habited and unhabited. They are all remarkable women.

 

A study is coming out in April, from Oxford University Press, that indicates about 50% of those entering religious life are doing so in communities on the more traditional end of the spectrum, and about 50% on the more progressive end of the spectrum (I really don't like these terms but, for want of a better shorthand).  The reason that the more traditional communities APPEAR to be getting more candidates is that there are fewer such communities, and so there are fewer options for those looking in that direction. [And, of course, some are not attracting any candidates; the Sisters of St. Francis for the Dying in California, for instance, had their last living member die about 18 months ago.]  Meanwhile, those entering more "progressive" communities are doing so across a larger spectrum of congregations (again not all are attracting members, but some are).

 

I hope it is clear that i am not here to cause trouble or to raise hackles, but to listen, to occasionally participate, and sometimes to just offer a slightly different perspective. If that is not appropriate, I will return to lurker status.  Silence is also good.  :saint2:

 

Thanks for writing this Nunsuch.  One of the things I often hear people bemoan is that there aren't as many sisters in school anymore and how the sisters "left where they were supposed to be."  My community was founded to teach and we have broadened our understanding of what education means but we are still primarily serving in schools.  Other communities, like the SSJs, answered a need even though it wasn't their community's mission and taught in schools.  They went and taught because the Church asked them to and needed them to, not because they had to.  They certainly didn't abandon their mission when they left the classroom - they revitalized it!  

 

I think you expressed everything else I would want to say in the above!  I hope you don't lurk and continue to offer your voice because its obvious you have a lot of knowledge to share and a new perspective.

 

Nunsuch,

 

My community would not fit into established definitions of conservative/progressive, even though we wear a habit, and follow the essentials of religious life. The diocese could not figure us out, so labeled us as radical. We are just faithful to the church. What we are trying to change is canon law on persons with disabilities, since the church is not flexible when it comes to accepting those with disabilities into religious life. We are living proof that persons with mild disabilities can have a vocation and life the live.

 

Certain congregations might not have a common mission, but when communities stray from their original charisms, things can go haywire, because they were not meant to do something else.

 

 

Savvy, I don't know much about your community but you say that the diocese labelled you as radical but you wear a habit... how does that work?  Does the community have any canonical standing?  permission to wear a habit?  I'm not trying to be a pain just wondering because I thought it was an association of the faithful on the way to becoming a religious institute.   

 

I'm also confused about what you wrote about canon law... the major superior alone has the right to admit someone to the congregation.  The church doesn't admit, its the congregation that allows the candidate to enter.  Canon law seems to offer leeway for superiors to judge what it means for someone to " have the health, suitable character, and sufficient qualities of maturity to embrace the proper life of the institute."  Also, the list of impediments doesn't seem to say anything about disabilities at all.  Changing canon law is probably not something that is going to happen.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I would be eager to understand what you mean.

[Nunsuch]

Thanks to both Savvy and Sister Marie!  Savvy, first, I think your community's openness to women with mild disabilities is WONDERFUL.  Thank you!  I have an amazing niece/goddaughter who has cerebral palsy and is about to graduate from college this year (she will do so with high honors). She is remarkable, and has sensitized me and so many people to the giftedness of the "other-abled."  She does not have a calling to religious life (she is planning to be a lawyer and work with disability rights), but I'm glad to know that your community is out there.

 

I do want to emphasize, as Sister Marie has so well, that some communities have not "deviated" from their original charism, so much as reinterpreted it in light of new circumstances. Charism and ministry are not the same thing. Those who saw one ministry as a way of living out their charism a hundred or two hundred years ago may now discern a different path. And some paths that were not open to women at that time now are. For example, until 1936 or 1937, canon law prohibited sisters from becoming medical doctors. Now some communities educate some members as physicians.  This is not a rejection of something so much as seeing things in new ways and welcoming new opportunities to serve.

 

I do intend mainly to lurk, but I will try to participate when I think I may have something to offer.

[savvy]

 

Savvy, I don't know much about your community but you say that the diocese labelled you as radical but you wear a habit... how does that work?  Does the community have any canonical standing?  permission to wear a habit?  I'm not trying to be a pain just wondering because I thought it was an association of the faithful on the way to becoming a religious institute.   

 

 

Sister Marie. At first the community went through a commission in the diocese. The commission was made up of nuns who were very liberal, and did not want us there. I understand that not all LCWR communities are this way. But, we were subject to some very nasty people, who felt that communities that wear habits should be going extinct, and that we were archaic because we would not support certain feminist causes etc.

 

These nuns had more clout since they were more established and had been around longer.

 

It was then mutually discerned with the then Bishop, that it would be best if we pulled out from the diocese, so we would have more room to grow, without interference from those who might not be supportive.

 

Yes, We are a private association of the faithful on our way to becoming a religious institute. We are currently non-canonical.

 

 Also, the list of impediments doesn't seem to say anything about disabilities at all.  Changing canon law is probably not something that is going to happen.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I would be eager to understand what you mean.

 

 

In my community each of us has an IEP and the superior works with us according to it, the same as is done in special education. A lot of communities still discriminate on basis of disability even though it's not on paper, as you mentioned. I know some communities I discerned with, that dropped me the moment I told them I had mild aspergers. They freaked out because they did not know how to handle this. They still agreed that I had a vocation, but did not know how to work this out.

 

We are trying to change this, by creating more awareness of how persons with disabilities can have vocations and through our own lives open the doors that need to be opened in the church on this front.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[savvy]

 

Savvy, first, I think your community's openness to women with mild disabilities is WONDERFUL.  Thank you!  I have an amazing niece/goddaughter who has cerebral palsy and is about to graduate from college this year (she will do so with high honors). She is remarkable, and has sensitized me and so many people to the giftedness of the "other-abled."  She does not have a calling to religious life (she is planning to be a lawyer and work with disability rights), but I'm glad to know that your community is out there.

 

 

Thanks Nunsuch.  We teach those with learning and emotional problems. A lot of these kids have been rejected by other places, for being too stupid or too much trouble. Their lives have been changed after coming to us. I am not bragging, but the church here is doing what the education system has failed to do, with these kids.