Computers Stink

[Lil Red]

Lil Red - you might try calling mac support to see what it would cost to get them to send you restore discs. It may cost a crapton, but they also may be able to do it for a nominal fee. Even used, macbooks retain a lot of value for some reason. I was able to sell a well used february 2008 macbook a few months ago for $300.

 

thanks, I'll give that a shot. :)

[blazeingstar]

Yes, but after the initial investment of time, you save $70 to $100 every time you have to rebuild a computer, and you can do it all yourself. Plus there is the cost benefit of open source software usage. For example, I do professional graphic design and digital illustration work using Linux tools which would have cost thousands in the closed-source world. (Adobe)

 

But yeah. Sadness.

 

I also find it really weird how much value Macbooks retain. The hardware on those things is almost always behind the curve, but people still covet it. IDGI.

 

They're a unix based os which makes them all smooth.

 

I used linux for years on machines I got on clearance from tigerdirect.  Building laptops is just a pain in the kiester.  

 

The problem, I think, is that all PC's are held equal and most consumer PC's have atrociously cheap hardware, so by comparison the Mac hardware seems to always be good.

 

Open source software takes a whole heck of alot longer than 10 hours to use...even that which lives within Ubuntu.  And since Mac is a unix machine it runs a very nice virtual box whenever necessary to get free software.  Windows software was painfully slow, never updated and the virtual box was unreliable most times.  Dualboot was decent but I stopped after a while as windows is just so issue prone.

[arfink]

They're a unix based os which makes them all smooth.

 

I used linux for years on machines I got on clearance from tigerdirect.  Building laptops is just a pain in the kiester.  

 

The problem, I think, is that all PC's are held equal and most consumer PC's have atrociously cheap hardware, so by comparison the Mac hardware seems to always be good.

 

Open source software takes a whole heck of alot longer than 10 hours to use...even that which lives within Ubuntu.  And since Mac is a unix machine it runs a very nice virtual box whenever necessary to get free software.  Windows software was painfully slow, never updated and the virtual box was unreliable most times.  Dualboot was decent but I stopped after a while as windows is just so issue prone.

 

Yeah, working on laptop hardware is a pain, especially without the right tools. :P I've fixed many a busted power jack or blown inverters on older-model craptops.

 

As for PC hardware, unless you buy cheapo no-brand motherboards, it's no lower grade than the Foxconn stuff they put in iThings these days. Foxconn even has their own line of PC mobos that have been very reliable for me.
 

TL;DR, I am not a normal user. I can solder, build just about any kind of computer, and I can compile a Linux kernel if I have to. :P The advantages for me are enormous, but I concede that most people really just need an internet appliance, not a general purpose computing machine.

[blazeingstar]

Yeah, working on laptop hardware is a pain, especially without the right tools. :P I've fixed many a busted power jack or blown inverters on older-model craptops.

 

As for PC hardware, unless you buy cheapo no-brand motherboards, it's no lower grade than the Foxconn stuff they put in iThings these days. Foxconn even has their own line of PC mobos that have been very reliable for me.
 

TL;DR, I am not a normal user. I can solder, build just about any kind of computer, and I can compile a Linux kernel if I have to. :P The advantages for me are enormous, but I concede that most people really just need an internet appliance, not a general purpose computing machine.

 

Yeah, between FH and I we have software, hardware all covered.  He's a software engineer and is into gadgets.  I actually deal with college students so I used Linux and taught many students who's hard drives crashed how to use ubuntu  (you'd think being simplistic, it'd be easy, but the kids these days have NO idea what to do when something's not plug and play).  Like I told you before, he's built a CNC in my basement.  Mostly him, minor contributions from me.  I'm learning the software and thinking of the things I can do with it as his plans for the CNC are to make better sides for the CNC than 2x4's.

 

At any rate

 

I was actually referring to the hardware on most PC's sold in the store/online these days.  The hardware on most consumer grade computers, especially laptops is insanely bad.  I'd say the only PC equivalent of Mac's for decent physically functioning hardware are things like Alienware (which do hold their value a bit).  Lenovo's business machines tend to go for much longer than something like an off-the-shelf ASUS.   The truth is that you CAN have a mac that's 6-8 years old and runs fine.  You can't have a windows laptop that's 6 and runs fine.  My work windows computer is about 2 years old and its already buggy.  We have a 3 year replacement plan.  The people who work with Mac's are on a 5 year plan.  That said, a 5yo PC with Linux is fine.  The real issue is that people are trained on their favored OS and freak out when things are different or they can't play Candy Crush Saga (insert facebook hit here).  Didn't Java abandon linux recently?

[arfink]

Yeah, between FH and I we have software, hardware all covered.  He's a software engineer and is into gadgets.  I actually deal with college students so I used Linux and taught many students who's hard drives crashed how to use ubuntu  (you'd think being simplistic, it'd be easy, but the kids these days have NO idea what to do when something's not plug and play).  Like I told you before, he's built a CNC in my basement.  Mostly him, minor contributions from me.  I'm learning the software and thinking of the things I can do with it as his plans for the CNC are to make better sides for the CNC than 2x4's.

 

At any rate

 

I was actually referring to the hardware on most PC's sold in the store/online these days.  The hardware on most consumer grade computers, especially laptops is insanely bad.  I'd say the only PC equivalent of Mac's for decent physically functioning hardware are things like Alienware (which do hold their value a bit).  Lenovo's business machines tend to go for much longer than something like an off-the-shelf ASUS.   The truth is that you CAN have a mac that's 6-8 years old and runs fine.  You can't have a windows laptop that's 6 and runs fine.  My work windows computer is about 2 years old and its already buggy.  We have a 3 year replacement plan.  The people who work with Mac's are on a 5 year plan.  That said, a 5yo PC with Linux is fine.  The real issue is that people are trained on their favored OS and freak out when things are different or they can't play Candy Crush Saga (insert facebook hit here).  Didn't Java abandon linux recently?

 

Well, I had an old HP that ran for 7 years, and it finally kicked the bucket when the optical drive was dead and both screen hinges snapped. I have a 13 year old IBM Thinkpad that's still going strong (CrunchBang Linux) and a Tandy 102 that's older than I am, but I don't think that counts. :P

 

I agree that most consumer computer hardware cut corners and I don't just buy any old lappy anymore. I got an ASUS U48 with the magnesium chassis and aluminum skin, and aside from the occasional cleaning it has so far proven to be real nice. I run Linux Mint 13 LTS, which should provide upstream software updates for something like another 5 years, after which a quick repo-change and "sudo apt-get update install" will give me another 5.

 

Java didn't abandon Linux, you just have to do a little more work. The licensing terms changed and Debian-upstream stopped including it in the repositories, which means most distributions which just copy Debian's repos just stopped having Java in them. I use Linux Mint, and they actually put in non-GPL licensed stuff into the repos. Stuff like codecs and Java and so on. You do have to click through a EULA sometimes, but it works just fine. Mint is actually one of the build platforms being targeted by Valve for their Linux port of Steam. Very nice stuff IMO, and about the most plug-n-play you could ask for with Linux.
 

[blazeingstar]

 

Well, I had an old HP that ran for 7 years, and it finally kicked the bucket when the optical drive was dead and both screen hinges snapped. I have a 13 year old IBM Thinkpad that's still going strong (CrunchBang Linux) and a Tandy 102 that's older than I am, but I don't think that counts. :P

 

 

Well my point was that windows isn't lasting.  My IBM thinkpad just died from a power issue in 2013 at the age of 9 after being rather battered around (And by battered I do mean battered).  It ran Xubuntu linux up to the latest edition and I didn't want for anything.

 

 

 

I agree that most consumer computer hardware cut corners and I don't just buy any old lappy anymore. I got an ASUS U48 with the magnesium chassis and aluminum skin, and aside from the occasional cleaning it has so far proven to be real nice. I run Linux Mint 13 LTS, which should provide upstream software updates for something like another 5 years, after which a quick repo-change and "sudo apt-get update install" will give me another 5.

 

 

Well, yes, but I was adressing the mystery of Macs holding their value.  For the most part they physically last longer...mostly due to their OS.

 

 

Java didn't abandon Linux, you just have to do a little more work. The licensing terms changed and Debian-upstream stopped including it in the repositories, which means most distributions which just copy Debian's repos just stopped having Java in them. I use Linux Mint, and they actually put in non-GPL licensed stuff into the repos. Stuff like codecs and Java and so on. You do have to click through a EULA sometimes, but it works just fine. Mint is actually one of the build platforms being targeted by Valve for their Linux port of Steam. Very nice stuff IMO, and about the most plug-n-play you could ask for with Linux.

 

 

 

 

I was having a bear of a time getting all the updates on my S10 Lenovo Netbook that I ran Ubuntu on.  I didn't try other Linux flavors.  I was frustrated, sick of the tiny screen and needed things to upgrade right for school.  I went with a 2009 Mac for $500 off of Mac of all Trades last year and am really happy with it.  It still runs really well in general.  I tend to like IBM/Lenovo hardware, and be a bit bitter about all other hardware.  My first laptop was a HP that died at 6 months 2 days...just minutes after the warentee.  In college I watched alot of pure hardware failure on Acers, HP's and Toshibas.  I loved my IBM thinkPad and would probably still be using linux on it if I hadn't beaten it to death.  (13 moves in 10 years, plus shuffling back and forth to college)
 

[arfink]

Yep. I think the #1 thing I have to do with the Windows machines I support is sort out massive software failures due to the latest and greatest malware.

[blazeingstar]

Yep. I think the #1 thing I have to do with the Windows machines I support is sort out massive software failures due to the latest and greatest malware.

 

oh yes, espcally ones that cause hard crashes which stop the discs cold which can lead to premature harddrive failure.  Or the belief that seems to be prevelant that if one simply does a hard reboot they can make the issue go away...which is about as logical as suckerpunching someone with a broken nose to make a toothake go away.

[Winchester]

Yeah, it is sad that people feel the need to spend that kind of money on an OS when they could do some learning instead.

 

But you are right, the sad fact of the matter is that, just like cars, most people who use them will not learn how to master and maintain them.

It's almost like people have different values,

[Lil Red]

Yeah, it is sad that people feel the need to spend that kind of money on an OS when they could do some learning instead.

 

But you are right, the sad fact of the matter is that, just like cars, most people who use them will not learn how to master and maintain them.

But yeah. Sadness.

but I concede that most people really just need an internet appliance, not a general purpose computing machine.

 

the condescension dripping from your posts has been anything but helpful. i read your first post to my husband who was flabbergasted that someone would say that to another person - basically implying that i'm being lazy because i choose not to spend hours upon hours to be frustrated. I'm not an idiot, but hardcore computer knowledge (much like car mechanics) is completely out of my area of expertise. and no, i'm not just needing a computer for playing around on the internet. I need it for business.

[blazeingstar]

the condescension dripping from your posts has been anything but helpful. i read your first post to my husband who was flabbergasted that someone would say that to another person - basically implying that i'm being lazy because i choose not to spend hours upon hours to be frustrated. I'm not an idiot, but hardcore computer knowledge (much like car mechanics) is completely out of my area of expertise. and no, i'm not just needing a computer for playing around on the internet. I need it for business.

 

I'm sorry you read that off of Arf's words.  Truth is Microsoft gouges it's customers especially considering the cheap hardware they have.

 

His view that it takes 10 hours is probably a bit skewed, but so is the view that you'd have to spend hours upon hours and be frustrated.  Truth is the newer versions of Linux like Ubuntu or Mint are really user friendly, and if you don't understand things you can always jump onto the forum, toss in the sudo code and someone will tell you how to fix it.

 

If you need a computer for business you should be more aware of issues and things you may face, and certainly back up to a NAS.  As a small business owner you need to be your own IT guru.  People who use their cars for work don't need to know about cars either, but it really does help.

Edited February 11, 2014 by blazeingstar

[Lilllabettt]

some people have more time than money. other people have more money than time. first world problems.

[Winchester]

I'm sorry you read that off of Arf's words.  Truth is Microsoft gouges it's its customers especially considering the cheap hardware they have.

 

His view that it takes 10 hours is probably a bit skewed, but so is the view that you'd have to spend hours upon hours and be frustrated.  Truth is the newer versions of Linux like Ubuntu or Mint are really user friendly, and if you don't understand things you can always jump onto the forum, toss in the sudo code and someone will tell you how to fix it.

 

If you need a computer for business you should be more aware of issues and things you may face, and certainly back up to a NAS.  As a small business owner you need to be your own IT guru.  People who use their cars for work don't need to know about cars either, but it really does help.

Where is the price gouging threshold? 

[Lil Red]

I do what I need to do for my father in law's business because they need it done and aren't willing to actually pay someone what they're worth to do it.

And no, hour upon hours of frustration isn't an overstatement.

[KnightofChrist]

I have numerous back up disks for OS X, different versions, if you could just find out the year the Macbook was made I could see if I have a copy of the backup disks for the OS that came with it. If I did and you agreed I could have them mailed to you or whomever, but it would be a loaner. If you forgot to backup your files I could also let you borrow Disk warrior, this allows you to attempt to save some data from the old HD if it isn't completely dead. You'd need an external HD for this however to save to, which you need anyway if you don't already have a backup HD.