Bill Nye Vs. Ken Ham

[CrossCuT]

It's really annoying to see this over and over on the thread, so let's be clear about a couple things... Neither Bill Nye nor Ken Ham are scientists.  Look up the word (it's meaning is not really that broad), then look at the respective experience of these two. 

 

Ken Ham has never done "science" and his "applied science" bachelor degree screams "couldn't hack it with a real major." 

 

Bill Nye has a respectable engineering degree and has a few years as an engineer at Boeing, but that quickly gave way to his interest in entertainment.  He's involved in science and engineering, sure, but he's never done anything to be mistaken as a "scientist."  He might be said to have some expertise in Aerospace (note: having expertise does not make one a scientist), but the vast majority of his life he's been in entertainment. 

 

I think we are starting to approach the derp side of the derp-o-meter. You dont think youre just being too picky? And your seemingly obvious distaste for Bill Nye is leading you there?

 

:idontknow:

[4588686]

I think we are starting to approach the derp side of the derp-o-meter. You dont think youre just being too picky? And your seemingly obvious distaste for Bill Nye is leading you there?

 

:idontknow:

 

 

You misspelled 'jealous.'

[NotreDame]

I think we are starting to approach the derp side of the derp-o-meter. You dont think youre just being too picky? And your seemingly obvious distaste for Bill Nye is leading you there?

 

:idontknow:

 

In this case it's horribly relevant that neither of these two are in any way scientists and have no special expertise in the field they are debating - yet are unfortunately being presented as such on this thread (and in many cases to the public at large.)

 

And I don't like either of them, which is why it's so troubling to see them lauded as scientists when they are no such things.

 

So no, there is zero "derp." 

[CrossCuT]

In this case it's horribly relevant that neither of these two are in any way scientists and have no special expertise in the field they are debating - yet are unfortunately being presented as such on this thread (and in many cases to the public at large.)

 

And I don't like either of them, which is why it's so troubling to see them lauded as scientists when they are no such things.

 

So no, there is zero "derp." 

Sure, Bill Nye doesnt literally work in a lab mixing chemicals in a super cool erlenmeyer flask while wearing a lab coat and screaming "Eureka!" every time something happens.

But he does have a science background, hosted numerous science shows and utilized the scientific method to educate. His entire career is geared towards education of the sciences and he has won many awards for it as well as respect from colleagues in that field. 

 

I think that makes him an authority enough to speak on the subject. If you dont feel that your definition of scientist applies to him then dont call him that...who cares. But you cant sit here and honestly say that he is not an authority to speak on the subject. Nothing he is saying is false. Its all science. lol So unless you noticed that all the stuff he said is incorrect, I dont know where youre basing this off of besides your dislike of him for whatever reason. :)

[blazeingstar]

In this case it's horribly relevant that neither of these two are in any way scientists and have no special expertise in the field they are debating - yet are unfortunately being presented as such on this thread (and in many cases to the public at large.)

 

And I don't like either of them, which is why it's so troubling to see them lauded as scientists when they are no such things.

 

So no, there is zero "derp." 

 

You do realize you sound like you have a case of "pretty, pretty princess"

 

How much a person is qualified or has education dosn't boil down to what classes they took as an undergrad or Masters, or even PHD.  If that was the case, we wouldn't have teachers qualified to teach science and make new scientists

 

Bill Nye is most certainly a scientist.  His forte' is one of education.  He deals with mostly basic principles and often on conveying those principals to children.  Teaching is a sort of science that requires much research and experimentation.

 

Ken Ham, on the other hand seems to use fear, money and clout to enforce his scientific theories, but even he researches and studies the world around him.  Now his "research" is biased and nearly delusional, but he still uses his own methods to explore the world.

[PhuturePriest]

I dont think Bill Nye wants to encourage animosity like some very extremists in the debate. He just wants to debate and share his love for the subject while dispelling all these silly notions. I think its sad that there are people like Richard Dawkins or others who are so rude. People are just so passionate on both sides so I guess its difficult to be charitable when all you want to do is scream "Youre wrong!"

 

And I know how both sides feel. Ive been on both sides. When I was younger I was very stupid and never thought for myself. I was spoon fed all this croutons science and believed it because I knew no better. I even sought out all these ridiculous videos talking about completely quack science and used it in my defense for Creationism. 

 

Now that Im much older and hopefully wiser, I can look back and see how wrong I was. But I think it also gives me a lot of empathy for others who are still in my old position. I try to use my understanding of that time in my life to be as charitable as possible when discussing it with people....maybe it doesnt always work but I TRY.  :saint2:

 

I used to be a Creationist, too, for the same reason: I didn't know any better. I thought that Evolution was contrary to the faith, because Genesis says this and Evolution says that. When I was fifteen I started to look it up, and I was shocked to learn that Evolution was actually compatible with the faith, and that Genesis isn't meant to be read as a science textbook. I jumped on the Evolution bandwagon immediately and couldn't believe how wrong I was.

 

It's really annoying to see this over and over on the thread, so let's be clear about a couple things... Neither Bill Nye nor Ken Ham are scientists.  Look up the word (it's meaning is not really that broad), then look at the respective experience of these two. 

 

Ken Ham has never done "science" and his "applied science" bachelor degree screams "couldn't hack it with a real major." 

 

Bill Nye has a respectable engineering degree and has a few years as an engineer at Boeing, but that quickly gave way to his interest in entertainment.  He's involved in science and engineering, sure, but he's never done anything to be mistaken as a "scientist."  He might be said to have some expertise in Aerospace (note: having expertise does not make one a scientist), but the vast majority of his life he's been in entertainment. 

 

So you're telling me you can't be a real scientist unless you have a degree in biology, astronomy, or physics? I guess somebody should tell Galileo...

[NotreDame]

But he does have a science background, hosted numerous science shows and utilized the scientific method to educate. His entire career is geared towards education of the sciences and he has won many awards for it as well as respect from colleagues in that field. 

 

Educator yes, but he's not a scientist. 

 

I think that makes him an authority enough to speak on the subject.

 

Sure, he can speak about it if he wants.  An educator and entertainer is probably a better communicator than a scientist anyway.

 

If you dont feel that your definition of scientist applies to him then dont call him that...

 

Hmm... The definition of scientist is not "mine".  You are the one subscribing to subjective, fluid meanings.  I ascribe to commonly agreed on, universal meanings... which is the point of language in the first place.  

 

who cares.

 

Anyone who cares about facts and the proper meanings of words... kind of like scientists do.

 

But you cant sit here and honestly say that he is not an authority to speak on the subject.

 

I said he's not a scientist and has no special expertise in the subject, which are both factual statements.  Authority he is not, by definition.  He could and did debate it and does speak on a wide array of topics.  Lots of people speak on things they aren't experts on simply because they care about the subject and are good communicators.

 

Nothing he is saying is false. Its all science. lol So unless you noticed that all the stuff he said is incorrect, I dont know where youre basing this off of besides your dislike of him for whatever reason. :)

 

I care about facts.  I know that is lost on some of you, but nevertheless...  Facts are, neither of these guys are scientists or experts in any scientific field (though they could both be experts in their respective fields, neither of which are scientific.)

[NotreDame]

So you're telling me you can't be a real scientist unless you have a degree in biology, astronomy, or physics? I guess somebody should tell Galileo...

The fact that this is the conclusion that you draw speaks volumes.

[blazeingstar]

This is the definition I found

 

Scientists perform research toward a more comprehensive understanding of nature, including physical, mathematical and social realms.

 

 

I'm pretty sure he does perform research, especially when it comes to education (which is a social relm)

[PhuturePriest]

The fact that this is the conclusion that you draw speaks volumes.

 

And the Apostles never got their STDs in theology, so I suppose they weren't real theologians, either.

 

Your issue is your definition of "scientist" comes from whether or not they have a degree. Steve Irwin never went to one college class his whole life. He did, however, grow up on a zoo, taking care of animals since before he could walk. He was more of an expert on animals than any idiot with a zoology degree.

[KnightofChrist]

What type of scientist is Bill Nye?

 

This is the definition I found

 

 

Scientists perform research toward a more comprehensive understanding of nature, including physical, mathematical and social realms.

I'm pretty sure he does perform research, especially when it comes to education (which is a social relm)

 

Seemly that could be applied to anyone.

[NotreDame]

This is the definition I found

 

I'm pretty sure he does perform research, especially when it comes to education (which is a social relm)

You are pretty sure?  I'm saw he was on committees, but I didn't see any proper research or publishing.

 

Your issue is your definition of "scientist" comes from whether or not they have a degree.

That is not nor is there any reason to assume that is my position.

 

What type of scientist is Bill Nye?

 

Seemly that could be applied to anyone.

He's not a scientist and the terms "research" and "expert" are not quite so broad as they first appear.  "Industry Expert" would cerainly be the broadest term since industry experience and an ability to BS intelligently could get you an "expert" tag and get you on some committees if you played your cards right. 

[blazeingstar]

You are pretty sure?  I'm saw he was on committees, but I didn't see any proper research or publishing.

 

That is not nor is there any reason to assume that is my position.

 

He's not a scientist and the terms "research" and "expert" are not quite so broad as they first appear.  "Industry Expert" would cerainly be the broadest term since industry experience and an ability to BS intelligently could get you an "expert" tag and get you on some committees if you played your cards right. 

 

Alright mr science master.  Could you give us the "proper" definition of being a scientst?  How many papers do they have to write?  How many hours do they have to spend in a lab?  Why don't you let us know your mysterious definition.

 

Besides his educational and comedian venues he has done research and worked to develop new things.  He worked on the MarsDial, created an museum exhibit that explores pollutants, and hold several patents.  I'm pretty sure he just didn't fart these out.  They require time and research.

[CrossCuT]

Sweet Heavenly Father

[KnightofChrist]

Alright mr science master.  Could you give us the "proper" definition of being a scientst?  How many papers do they have to write?  How many hours do they have to spend in a lab?  Why don't you let us know your mysterious definition.

 

Besides his educational and comedian venues he has done research and worked to develop new things.  He worked on the MarsDial, created an museum exhibit that explores pollutants, and hold several patents.  I'm pretty sure he just didn't fart these out.  They require time and research.

 

 

Sweet Heavenly Father

 

What type of scientist is Bill Nye?