Belief Letter

[SilentJoy]

Hello! My friend and I are struggling to communicate on the issue of Catholicism and it doesn't help that I'm non-confrontational and it is difficult to express myself, especially if the conversation seems to be getting somewhat emotional. I was thinking of writing her a letter because I think I can explain much better in writing, and it might be good to have it written down so we can point to what WAS said and what WASN'T...I'm wondering if anyone who has had this conversation might have any ideas.

 

For background, she was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school and sometimes doesn't believe me because "Well that's not what the nuns said..." and it is very difficult to try to delineate between Catholic teachings and what was actually taught.

 

For example, when I try to explain the intercession of the Saints,

"The nuns said to ask your mom for stuff your dad won't give you, and that's just not like God."

I say, "Mary wouldn't give you, or ask for, stuff God didn't want to give you. She is 'the handmaid of the Lord' and unites her will with God's."

"Well that's not what the nuns said..."

 

When I try to explain the necessity of Purgatory,

"The nuns said I would be tortured with fire for days and years. With FIRE."

"Purgatory isn't a physical location, so it wouldn't literally have time and fire. It's called fire because it purifies, and nothing impure enters heaven. We have to become holy to see the face of God."

"That totally makes sense. But that's not what the nuns said, and they went to school for that so they should've known."

 

(She DOES believe in an eternal  and everlasting super-forever flaming Hell...but not in a temporary flaming Purgatory, even if it makes sense that purification is necessary.  :think: I was the opposite before I converted.)

 

Regarding the Bible,

"We were told Catholics can't read the Bible. I didn't read the Bible until I left Catholicism."

I say, "I know that a lot of people were instructed that way, but that isn't what the Church itself taught or teaches. One way that you can tell is to look inside an old Catholic Bible; there's encouragement in the form of indulgences for reading the Bible daily [oops, pause for rabbit trail on indulgences]."

"Well that's not what the nuns/priests/everybody and their dog said..."

 

 

[SilentJoy]

My long-term solution is to become a nun and then I can say, "Now THIS is what the nun says," but I need something a little sooner.

[PhuturePriest]

It will be impossible to explain anything if she only cares about what the Nuns said.

[NotreDame]

Regarding the Bible,

"We were told Catholics can't read the Bible. I didn't read the Bible until I left Catholicism."

 

Was anybody actually taught this or is this a protestant creation or a sort of mass psychosis?  (I mean, what were all those old copies of the Douay-Rheims Bible for then?)

 

I think they are told they can't interpret the bible for themselves or something along those lines and they extrapolate it to this.
 

[Nihil Obstat]

Priests outrank nuns. Get references from a good priest.

[blazeingstar]

Just remind her that nuns are people, too, and especially before we had communication methods like today it was very easy to be in error.  Most of the mistakes are classic ones, perpetuated by society, so it's no surprize.

[Nihil Obstat]

Was anybody actually taught this or is this a protestant creation or a sort of mass psychosis?  (I mean, what were all those old copies of the Douay-Rheims Bible for then?)

 

I think they are told they can't interpret the bible for themselves or something along those lines and they extrapolate it to this.
 

I think there might have been a local council somewhere, sometime during the middle ages, that discouraged private reading of the Bible. Someone can probably expand on that. (Although these days whenever I say that, nobody ever does.)

Anyway, it was a local council, certainly not dogmatic, and long ago superseded.

[NotreDame]

I think there might have been a local council somewhere, sometime during the middle ages, that discouraged private reading of the Bible. Someone can probably expand on that. (Although these days whenever I say that, nobody ever does.)

Anyway, it was a local council, certainly not dogmatic, and long ago superseded.

 

Right, so were catholic parochial schools actually teaching this at any point?
 

[SilentJoy]

Wow, a lot happened in 20 minutes. Thanks everyone for your responses...

[Nihil Obstat]

Right, so were catholic parochial schools actually teaching this at any point?
 

It would not surprise me if it has been taught sometimes. I would not be able to comment further than that though.

If I might speculate though, I do not believe that it was taught nearly as often as some people like to pretend. Especially in the last few decades.

[PhuturePriest]

Priests outrank nuns. Get references from a good priest.

 

Sexist.

[Nihil Obstat]

Sexist.

Last night I went to a pub with about thirty other men from our parish, and our priest talked about manliness and the authority of the man as head of the family, during Superbowl halftime. No girls allowed.

 

[NotreDame]

It would not surprise me if it has been taught sometimes. I would not be able to comment further than that though.

If I might speculate though, I do not believe that it was taught nearly as often as some people like to pretend. Especially in the last few decades.

 

I don't think this is what the nuns taught.  I think it's what people want to remember or are told they were told.  The b-more catechism was the standard back then, it doesn't have any of this craziness in it, in fact, it cites bible verses more than any of the newer catechisms I've been given to teach with.

 

My whole family went to parochial school, many pre-vatican II.  None of these stories seem to jibe with their experiences, although they do say many of the Nuns were strangely mean. 

[Nihil Obstat]

I don't think this is what the nuns taught.  I think it's what people want to remember or are told they were told.  The b-more catechism was the standard back then, it doesn't have any of this craziness in it, in fact, it cites bible verses more than any of the newer catechisms I've been given to teach with.

 

My whole family went to parochial school, many pre-vatican II.  None of these stories seem to jibe with their experiences, although they do say many of the Nuns were strangely mean. 

个 That sounds much more likely to me.

[Basilisa Marie]

I think there might have been a local council somewhere, sometime during the middle ages, that discouraged private reading of the Bible. Someone can probably expand on that. (Although these days whenever I say that, nobody ever does.)

Anyway, it was a local council, certainly not dogmatic, and long ago superseded.

 

There were a couple of reasons why they wanted to discourage private reading of the Bible. First, in some times and places, the only local copy of the Bible was in a church (because books were crazy expensive). So they really didn't have access.  Second, in places that did have access, bishops wanted to make sure that people were reading it correctly, with the right kind of guidance. The idea that the Bible can be easily completely understood by anyone who picks it up (the meaning is obvious, so to speak) is a Protestant invention. The Jews were really big on reading scripture with the right scholarly guidance, and that carried over to Catholics. It's not about restricting the gospel. It's about helping people understand the gospel. It's not like everyone got sent to university to study theology. 

 

I don't know what local council, but it was certainly a common practice all over the place for a long time. 

 

So that's where the modern myth that Catholics don't read the Bible comes from.