NotreDame Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Is Amanda Knox Guilty? She just got found guilty, again, by another appeals court. She's always rubbed me the wrong way, yet I've never heard of any evidence that made her sound guilty to me - and as someone who's been young and abroad himself, I can believe the stories about the cops railroading her only 5 weeks into her stay. http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-found-guilty-court-sort/story?id=22306461&singlePage=true [...] In the wake of the legal victory and her release, Knox published a book followed by a high-profile publicity tour where she portrayed herself and her then-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito as innocent victims guilty of nothing more than failing to grasp the severity of the situation in which they suddenly found themselves ensconced. A pair of maybe too-affectionate young lovers, ultimately coerced and deceived into making incriminating statements by ruthless Italian investigators, cruelly questioning a sleepless, young tourist in a foreign tongue. And it didn't help that the lead and seemingly overzealous prosecutor also faced charges for abusing his office in another case. And so the story told on this side of the pond was clear: Amanda Knox was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But in reality, the question of where exactly she was that night and what she and Sollecito were doing has never been completely answered. [...] Anyone have any thoughts or any more info on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Amanda Knox is actually my cousin. Some people you just look at and know that they're going to stab somebody with a knife someday. She is one of those people. I have no idea whether she is guilty of this stabbing. But she will eventually kill somebody with a knife. That I guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I dunno, man. I read about the case a few months back, and I thought it seemed like she was obviously not guilty. But honestly, when it comes to this stuff, there is no news source that I trust to be spin-free and unbiased. I know that there are lots of sources trying to paint her as an innocent angel, and others trying to make her seem like some wretched scumbag. Is the truth somewhere in between? Or one or the other? I really have no way of knowing. So I try not to speculate. I hope justice is being done, but I do not have much confidence either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Cousin? Really? She's cute. Ahem. Do you know if she spoke Italian well before the trip? They seem to be really concerned about inconsistencies in her Italian testimony, but she had only been there 5 weeks. I know 5 weeks into my first trip abroad it would have been very difficult to give complex testimony under pressure without messing up tenses and expressions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Cousin? Really? She's cute. Ahem. Do you know if she spoke Italian well before the trip? They seem to be really concerned about inconsistencies in her Italian testimony, but she had only been there 5 weeks. I know 5 weeks into my first trip abroad it would have been very difficult to give complex testimony under pressure without messing up tenses and expressions. I'm just kidding, man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 My husband and I discussed this today. Italy isn't exactly a terrorist state. When one travels, they have to understand they are placing themselves under a set of laws that are, well, alien. It may be she is guilty under Italian law in a way she wouldn't be here. The dead girl's family believes she is guilty. I don't know, but I respect Italy's sovereignty and right to hold Americans to their laws when living there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 My husband and I discussed this today. Italy isn't exactly a terrorist state. When one travels, they have to understand they are placing themselves under a set of laws that are, well, alien. It may be she is guilty under Italian law in a way she wouldn't be here. The dead girl's family believes she is guilty. I don't know, but I respect Italy's sovereignty and right to hold Americans to their laws when living there. Should we extradite her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 I'm just kidding, man That's a strange thing to joke about, but she does have that crazy look to her, which made the post on-the-whole believable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I don't think there's any way they'll ever know for sure. It seems like a fairly circumstantial case, and didn't someone screw up the evidence too? I don't think the US is going to extradite her if she's found guilty, though. It doesn't seem to me like there's enough evidence to convict her in a US court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I have absolutely no idea one way or the other if she's guilty or not... but I do love the American principle of double jeopardy. only a verdict of guilty should be capable of being appealed. any not-guilty verdict at any level should be the end of the case. "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer." punishing people doesn't bring back the victim, so as long as there remains reasonable doubt that she did it, she should go free. I don't like her publicity tour though... but I wonder if that's part of a legal strategy to put pressure or influence a jury or something... probably not, probably just wanted to cash in haha. I've seen conflicting answers from experts as to whether this will factor into the US's decision on whether or not to extradite. As I understand it there is still another layer of appeal in Italy going on first though, but it will be interesting to see whether the US would refuse to extradite on the basis of double jeopardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Being able to appeal a not guilty freaked me out when I first moved to Canada. I thought double jeopardy was English common law. The difference I suppose is the idea of getting it right as opposed to getting it done. The US has issues with basic policeing where the idea is just clear the case or end it. As to extradition, I think we may have to if they request it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I don't like that idea of 'getting it right'--I prefer a law motivated more by Blackstone's formulation I quoted above, better that the guilty go free than that the innocent go to jail, so that once someone is found not guilty that's the end not because we just want to get it over with, but because as a matter of principle any not guilty verdict at any level should be final due to the presumption of innocence. the idea of double jeopardy is that the burden of proof is on the government to prove to a jury of your peers that you did it, and they don't get to keep trying if that jury gives the answer they don't want. I am absolutely horrified by systems that do not have double jeopardy. yes, we have our problems, but double jeopardy is a hallmark of justice and I consider any system in which the government can appeal a not guilty verdict to be inherently unjust on that point. I have seen some experts suggest that the US might not extradite based on that point. at the very least I'm sure her lawyers will argue it at the extradition hearing if it comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Wow just reading up on the various common law countries and how they each basically gave up on the doctrine of double jeopardy that had been enshrined in common law for centuries, all within the last decade or so mostly... unbelievable. and I thought our dual sovereignty workaround was bad. utterly disgusting IMO. just throwing out one other reason for double jeopardy rules being absolute: the government starts with the advantage. they have the guns and the badges, the resources and the manpower, whereas the accused stands with a minimum of just a lawyer on his side... the massive state coming down to accuse one man, which is why we have a presumption of innocence and a strict burden of proof on the government... but also for that reason we should immediately favor a not guilty verdict as the last word in a case. if the government was unable to prove it even though they started out with the advantage, then case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 in many european countries, the accused are considered guilty until proven innocent. they have an entirely different way of looking at things. travelers beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Apparently the Europeans knew what to expect, Knox did not: As soon as Kercher's corpse was discovered, the two Italian roommates called their lawyers. Kercher's British friends were even more cautious: Most of them fled the country, returning to the U.K. Edda asked Knox to fly home, or visit her cousin in Germany, but Knox refused. She wanted to see Kercher's family when they arrived in Perugia. She also wanted to help investigators find the killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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