Sheep In Wolves Clothing

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

So. What  do you all think a sheep in wolves clothing is?

 

I think it means perhaps to dress like a wolf perhaps even hang around with wolves in the hope of there salvation, but it does not mean you have the attitude of a wolf, not an aggressor nor howling at every dark night, i think sheep in wolves clothing are still a sheep and meant to be gentle and meek. Or perhaps it is a sheep dog, but remember sheep dogs guide the sheep there not like cattle dogs, there not like drovers with whips driving cattle. I know this is a popular philosophy now but what exactly does it mean to you all? 

 

 

Onward christian souls.

 

Jesus iz LORD.

 

[SilentJoy]

I think I can be a "sheep in wolves' clothing" when I get too preoccupied with inner darkness and failures and I start projecting a wolfish image to try to distance and protect other people from myself, instead of just accepting relationships as they come and allowing the other person to decide whether I'm safe to hang around with or not. I sometimes avoid being genuine in friendships because I'm too afraid that I will end up hurting the other person somehow.

 

How's that?  :saint2:

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Never thought about it like that. Nice.

[add]

[Julian]

So. What  do you all think a sheep in wolves clothing is?

 

I think it means perhaps to dress like a wolf perhaps even hang around with wolves in the hope of there salvation, but it does not mean you have the attitude of a wolf, not an aggressor nor howling at every dark night, i think sheep in wolves clothing are still a sheep and meant to be gentle and meek. Or perhaps it is a sheep dog, but remember sheep dogs guide the sheep there not like cattle dogs, there not like drovers with whips driving cattle. I know this is a popular philosophy now but what exactly does it mean to you all? 

 

 

Onward christian souls.

 

Jesus iz LORD.

Sheep are all Christians who through antidote (sacraments) against seven Capital Vices have been made obedient to the law of God.

Sheep in wolves clothing are all false Christians, Catholics (includes all positions) who have lost grace, and are now working, directly or indirectly against the Revelation and Church teachings, they have returned to 7 Capital Vices.

Tight pants and short skirts…offer the fruit of sensuality to adams.  

Edited February 2, 2014 by Julian

[cruciatacara]

I thought it 'wolf in sheep's clothing' ... not 'sheep in wolf's clothing'

 

I can understand why a wolf would want to pretend to be a sheep - to get close to the flock to kill them. But why would a sheep want to pretend to be a wolf? It sounds kind of dangerous to me. If the whole point is to convert the wolf into becoming a sheep - well, it doesn't seem very likely that dressing and acting like a wolf and hanging around with wolves is the way to do it.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

You all thought it said wolf in sheeps clothing? :lol: Nayo, a sheep in wolves clothing infiltrating the wolf pack leading them to Jesus so Jesus can turn those wolfies into good little sheepies. :P Jesus can do that, he can turn any forest creature into a sheep and not a wolf in sheeps clothing an actual sheep. The enemy will never suspect it because he iz an idiot! And yes it is a very dangerous mission and not recommended for all sheepies. I don't really know what it is, that's just my idea of it, haven't you all heard of it? But also i don't think you have to act like a wolf persay just look like a wolf and perhaps hang around a few wolves, but one need also to hang around other sheepies at other times for prayer and scripture and such things. :)

Edited February 3, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[reyb]

So. What  do you all think a sheep in wolves clothing is?

 

I think it means perhaps to dress like a wolf perhaps even hang around with wolves in the hope of there salvation, but it does not mean you have the attitude of a wolf, not an aggressor nor howling at every dark night, i think sheep in wolves clothing are still a sheep and meant to be gentle and meek. Or perhaps it is a sheep dog, but remember sheep dogs guide the sheep there not like cattle dogs, there not like drovers with whips driving cattle. I know this is a popular philosophy now but what exactly does it mean to you all? 

 

 

Onward christian souls.

 

Jesus iz LORD.

They are spiritual leaders who truly believes that they belong to God but they are not. They are deceived  teachers and thus, they are unaware of their true condition of being ‘false teachers’.

 

They are called ‘false teachers’ because they are preaching a different Jesus from the one being preached by all God’s witnesses.

 

They are now your teachers who preached about this historical Jesus as the Christ of God while in fact, they too believed that only God can reveal His Christ. So, how come they can present  (to anyone and even to themselves) the real thing if God alone can do it? Only God can reveal his Christ to anyone who really seek Him and nobody can do it even true witnesses themselves.

 

Thus, they are bringing you to their own version of Jesus - the historical Jesus. 

.  

As it is written, (in Matt 7:15-23)

 

15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

 

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

 

 

Edited February 6, 2014 by reyb

[NotreDame]

They are spiritual leaders who truly believes that they belong to God but they are not. They are deceived  teachers and thus, they are unaware of their true condition of being ‘false teachers’.

 

They are called ‘false teachers’ because they are preaching a different Jesus from the one being preached by all God’s witnesses.

 

Reyb against the world!  How's that working out for you, bud?  Feel special?

[reyb]

Reyb against the world!  How's that working out for you, bud?  Feel special?

All of us are special in God’s eyes as you can see in parable we discussed before. Nevertheless, you do not used your privilege of being special because you do not seek Christ from God himself. What I am saying is this. You will find Him if only you seek Him.

 

I am not against anyone. I am simply reminding you that Christ is the same forever. If you truly believe that Apostle Paul (and all God's witnesses) saw Christ, Why then God will ever deny to you to reveal his mystery, namely Christ?

[Ed Normile]

All of us are special in God’s eyes as you can see in parable we discussed before. Nevertheless, you do not used your privilege of being special because you do not seek Christ from God himself. What I am saying is this. You will find Him if only you seek Him.

 

I am not against anyone. I am simply reminding you that Christ is the same forever. If you truly believe that Apostle Paul (and all God's witnesses) saw Christ, Why then God will ever deny to you to reveal his mystery, namely Christ?

 

Reyb, I do not think God would ever deny revealing His Son the Christ to us. What happens is many refuse to accept the fullness of all his Son gave to us in His Word and His church.

 

ed

[BarbTherese]

My two cents with fear and trepidation in the Debate Forum always!

 

Faith is not an intellectual choice, it is the free Gift of God to whomsoever He may choose.  I don't think that we can sit in judgement on others who may assent to The Bible and Jesus as their saviour but do not assent to all that The Church teaches i.e. have not received the Gift of Faith in all it's fullness as we understand it.  I don't think that we are special at all - rather a very weighty responsibility and accountability has been granted us - and with all the Graces necessary to respond fully providing we do choose to respond fully and in failure, repent fully and with a firm desire to correct things in the future and to use all available means to do so.

 

"But many of the Church’s laws and regulations do not deal directly with doctrine, but more with disciplinary matters. This involves not so much the virtue of faith, but that of obedience. But as we have pointed out these two virtues are so dependent on each other that when one is weak, so is the other. In seeking help in regard to this fundamental gift of faith, we would do well to turn to the Mother of Jesus and our Mother, the perfect model of humble faith. “Blessed is she who has believed.” (Lk.1:45) Ask her to obtain for you a humble openness of mind and heart to the action of the Holy Spirit revealing God’s message through the authoritative teachings of the Church." http://www.rosary-center.org/ll50n2.htm

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm

(c) Again, it is evident that this "light of faith" is a supernatural gift and is not the necessary outcome of assent to the motives of credibility. No amount of study willwin it, no intellectual conviction as to the credibility of revealed religion nor even of the claims of the Church to be our infallible guide in matters of faith, willproduce this light in a man'smind. It is the free gift of God. Hence the Vatican Council (III, iii;) teaches that "faith is a supernatural virtueby which we with the inspirationand assistance of God's grace, believethose things to be true which He has revealed". The same decree goes on to say that "although the assent of faith is in no sense blind, yet no one can assent to the Gospelteaching in the way necessary for salvation without the illumination of the Holy Spirit, Who bestows on all a sweetness in believing and consentingto the truth". Thus, neither as regards the truth believednor as regards the motives for believing, nor as regards the subjective principle by which we believe— viz. the infused light — can faith be considered blind.

 

 

http://www.rosary-center.org/ll50n2.htm

Theology for The Laity ( Father Paul A. Duffner, O.P.)

 

" Faith is the very foundation of the Christian life, without which one’s knowledge is limited to only what he knows by the light of reason. Yet, basic and essential as this virtue is, it is only superficially understood and lived by many who have received this divine gift. It is a free gift of God which we did not and cannot merit, but a gift that carries with it certain obligations that must be fulfilled if it is not to be lost. This infused virtue of faith has been defined by the first Vatican Council as follows:

“Faith is a supernatural virtue whereby under the inspiration and assistance of grace we believe those things revealed by God to be true, not because the intrinsic truth of those things revealed by God has been perceived by the light of reason, but because of the authority of God Himself revealing, who can neither deceive nor be deceived.” (Sess. III, ch.3)

 

 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

guys the title and subject of the thread is 'sheep in wolves clothing' not the biblical 'wolf in sheeps clothing.' :) It is a phrase i have heard a few times in christian rap so i thought it may be some kind of popular or semi popular kind of spirituality or something or just some catch phrase, i don't know. If i'm correct about the termanology i guess St paul was a bit of a sheep in wolves clothing chilling with the pagans and bringing them to Christ while the others where staying amongst the flock and jews, which i'm not saying was bad and saint paul i gather was always going back to or through letters getting advice and stuff from those staying amongst the flock and other jews. I play it as like a thief in the night but not actually a thief in the night, something like that, rough around the edges but not rough. :) I'm just interested as to if anyone else has heard this phrase coined and as to what other people think it may or may not be getting at.

 

Onward christian souls.

 

Jesus is LORD.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[BarbTherese]

guys the title and subject of the thread is 'sheep in wolves clothing' not the biblical 'wolf in sheeps clothing.' :) It is a phrase i have heard a few times in christian rap so i thought it may be some kind of popular or semi popular kind of spirituality or something or just some catch phrase, i don't know. If i'm correct about the termanology i guess St paul was a bit of a sheep in wolves clothing chilling with the pagans and bringing them to Christ while the others where staying amongst the flock and jews, which i'm not saying was bad and saint paul i gather was always going back to or through letters getting advice and stuff from those staying amongst the flock and other jews. I play it as like a thief in the night but not actually a thief in the night, something like that, rough around the edges but not rough. :) I'm just interested as to if anyone else has heard this phrase coined and as to what other people think it may or may not be getting at.

 

Onward christian souls.

 

Jesus is LORD.

 

Hi again Tab :)  - Sailing in gingerly with my tuppence again............in the Sermon on The Mount, we read:  "[21] You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment. [22] But I say to you" 

            Here we hear Jesus affirming the Old Law, but then introducing something that was scandal to some of his hearers (some Jews)  "But I say to you" in other words He is introducing His Own Self into the scenario and as above the Old Law, or He would not have said "But I say to you"  I think that St Paul in his teachings was following Christ as per The Gospels not remaining "stuck" in the old ways and Testament which are now transcended by the Second Person of The Blessed Trinity become man as expressed in the New Testament.  The Old Testament and the way of traditional Jews is not cancelled out but brought to fulfilment in Christ - and perhaps this is why St Paul at times does refer to the Old Testament and rightly.

 

St Paul too was following another of the teachings of Jesus

Mark 16:15
And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature.[16] He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned."
 

The Jews believed and still believe I think that they are the chosen people of God and all others are excluded.  This was not the teaching of Jesus.  In fact, when Jesus cures the Roman centurion's daughter, he states that the Faith of the centurian was greater than any found in Israel, and the 'chosen people'.  What Jesus does is commend a pagan over Israel.  This would have been probably horrific to the ears of believing and faithful Jews.

 

What follows on from "sending you out to be as sheep amonst wolves" is of interest "Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves."

 

Haydock's Commentary http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id24.html has this to say and makes an interesting reflection:

 

Ver. 16. Wise as serpents, &c. It is a proverbial way of speaking; and an admonition to be circumspect and discreet, but harmless, innocent, sincere in all our actions and dealings. (Witham) --- Simple. That is, harmless, plain, sincere, and without guile. (Challoner) --- In the midst of wolves. Although Christ sent his apostles not only against wolves, but even into the very midst of wolves, still he commands them to behave with the meekness of sheep, and simplicity of doves. Thus he evinces the greatness of his power, in overcoming the wolves by the sheep, which were continually exposed to be devoured and torn in pieces by them, still never failing to change the fierce nature of the ravenous wolf into their own nature, in mildness and innocence.

              As long as we retain the nature of sheep, we easily overcome our adversaries; but no sooner are we changed into wolves, than we become the derision of our enemies: the supreme Pastor, who superintends the sheep, not the wolves, withdrawing from us the powerful protection of his grace, and leaving us to the misery of our own weakness. ---

                 Our Saviour, in his infinite wisdom, knew full well the nature of things; passion was not to be overcome by passion, but by meekness only. Thus the apostles did, when the Jews having apprehended them, said, Have we not again and again commanded you not to teach in this name? (Acts, Chap. iv.) Though they had the power of working the greatest miracles, yet they let nothing harsh, nothing severe, escape them, either in words or actions. With simplicity they made answer, Judge ye, if it be just to hear you rather than God; and at the same time shewed their prudence, saying, We cannot but speak what we have heard and seen. (St. Chrysostom, hom. xxxiv.) --- As sheep, &c. He compares them to sheep, not only because of their innocence, but also because they were sent unarmed and destitute of all human support. (Menochius) --- Wise, &c. That you may guard against the snares of your enemies. The prudence of the serpent is celebrated, because when it cannot escape, it strives at least to preserve its head free from hurt, whilst it leaves the rest of its body exposed. Thus Christians, who have Christ for their head, must preserve his faith and religion, though with the loss of every thing else. (Menochius)

 

Edited February 9, 2014 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

I tend to think that St Paul was not a wolf in sheep's clothing, rather we hear from him himself that he is in fact very much the sheep. addressing the Corinthians as a sheep realizing that they were very wise in the 'thoughts of this world' in loftiness of speech and in worldly wisdom........all of which I thought did tie in with the Haydock's Commentary quoted in my previous post re doves and serpents.  St Paul is telling the Corinthians very simply that he is nothing to this world, so that their Faith be not in "the wisdom of men, but on the power of God":

 

First Epistle of Paul to Corinthians http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=2&l=2#x

:

[1] And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not in loftiness of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of Christ. [2] For I judged not myself to know anything among you, but Jesus Christ, and him crucified. [3] And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. [4] And my speech and my preaching was not in the persuasive words of human wisdom, but in shewing of the Spirit and power; [5] That your faith might not stand on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.