U.s. To Seek Death Penalty In Boston Bombing Case

[4588686]

Race is an imprecise term to describe physical differences that result from genetics, but however imprecise, it's still pretty useful, which is why people use it and it's derivatives (eg. 'racism') all the time.  Even with that level of ambiguity, it's still precise enough to see that "muslim" is not a race.

 

And if you don't like people using the word, change starts at home.  Quit using the word "racist."

 

 

Now you're trying to worm your way out of it.  You claimed that it was not a social construct.  What are the biological races?  

 

As I just said, 'racism' is still a meaningful term even though biological races do not actually exist in the human population.  My issue was your claim that 'race' is not a social construct.  

[4588686]

Seriously, this is getting stupid to the point of being irredeemably boring. 

 

Hasan, Islam is not a race.  It's a religion.  Judaism is both a race and a religion.  Race is not a social construct.  If these things have to be explained to you, then your brain is broken.

\

 

[NotreDame]

Now you're trying to worm your way out of it.  You claimed that it was not a social construct.  What are the biological races?  

 

As I just said, 'racism' is still a meaningful term even though biological races do not actually exist in the human population.  My issue was your claim that 'race' is not a social construct.  

 

You speak english, right?   So when I say "Race is an imprecise term to describe physical differences that result from genetics" you understand that genetic differences aren't social, don't you?  
 

[Basilisa Marie]

Ok, don't use racist. 

 

Use prejudiced. 

 

You're arguing about the stupid semantics of a word when you should be arguing about the fact that he basically called your position bigoted. 

[4588686]

You speak english, right?   So when I say "Race is an imprecise term to describe physical differences that result from genetics" you understand that genetic differences aren't social, don't you?  
 

 

 

This is getting sad.  Right.  Phenotypic traits are not social constructions.  However how we categorize which of those traits are meaningful and which aren't and classify some groups of people into different 'races' based on a subset of those traits is the social construct.  That's what it means to say that race is a social construct.  You objected very strongly to that idea and stated that the idea that race is a social construct was a sure sign of a 'broken brain.'  

 

 

Brown hair is the result of biology.  Deciding that brown haired people all belong to a particular race is a social construction.  

 

 

Maybe it would be helpful if I made a flow chart?

[Basilisa Marie]

There is a 3rd option.  We can deport him and his family back to Russia like we should have done years ago and we could crack down on Chechen immigration.  I can't think of a solution that would be a bigger deterrent than this. 

 

It would have been a good strategy to follow after 9/11 as well.  Unfortunately, stopping terrorism isn't always the goal and where it is the goal, it isn't always the priority.   After 9/11, rather than actually cracking down on muslim immigration here ("it would be racist"), we'd rather just bomb them there, send kids off to die, and eviscerate our bill of rights.

 

You do realize that white Christian-y Americans are also terrorists, right? 

Edited February 1, 2014 by Basilisa Marie

[NotreDame]

Ok, don't use racist. 

 

Use prejudiced. 

 

You're arguing about the stupid semantics of a word when you should be arguing about the fact that he basically called your position bigoted. 

 

You are right that I feel like less of a person for engaging with him on this.  But to be clear, I don't care that he called it or me bigoted.  I expected someone to call it bigoted.  It's not bigoted.  It's an indictment of how stupid people that call it "bigoted" are. 

 

His neighbors at the CIA didn't want to deport or thoroughly investigate these (white) Europeans despite numerous entreaties from foreign intelligence agencies.  I'm pretty sure they weren't citizens, so we'd be well within our rights to deport them.  We didn't because A) it would be politically incorrect and B) the government's goal is not to protect the citizenry, but to increase it's power. 

 

The government would rather let immigrants blow up Americans, then give them the death penalty, than just deport them when they start acting a little shady.

 

You do realize that white Christian-y Americans are also terrorists, right? 

 

Not an entirely correct, relevant, or analogous statement. 

[4588686]

My brain must be broken.  I haven't gotten any account of all those non-socially constructed races.  :'(

[ardillacid]

I am moving this to debate table. 

[CatherineM]

As probably the only person on phatmass who has spent time on three different death rows and to have witnessed a lethal injection execution I have a few observations.

I never met a man on death row who was both sane and sober when committing their crime. Insane and incompetent to stand trial or be executed are two vastly different things.

What my mind focuses on when thinking about this attack is that these were really athletic people, close to finishing a 26 mile long run, who had their legs blown off. There is something so surreal about that. I am familiar with the feeling that accompanies going from fit one day to disabled the next.

I'm an opponent to the death penalty. I understand why people want it though. If we are going to do it, we really need to change how we choose who faces it, and how we do it.

[NotreDame]

Brown hair is the result of biology.  Deciding that brown haired people all belong to a particular race is a social construction.  

 

I am saying that race is not a social construct because race is an imprecise term to describe genetic differences.  I am right. 

 

You are saying that race is a social construct because it is imprecise and it's precise meaning could vary based on society or even one's personal point of view.  You would be right, but only in the sense that a very, very many words have somewhat subjective meanings depending on context.  That does not mean that race is some imaginary thing that only exists because we've been socialized to believe it exists.

 

When I say that someone is of a different race, it is very, very clear I am speaking about genetic differences that have affected very different physical traits between various groups.  People know exactly what I mean no matter which society they are in.  Until a better word is provided than race, then I am compelled to use the term despite how imprecise it is. 

 

People as dumb as you that want to argue over these semantics are the same people that want to see Americans die rather than have the sack to deport a few shady characters.  That's why your brain is broken. 

[4588686]

I am saying that race is not a social construct because race is an imprecise term to describe genetic differences.  I am right. 

 

 

 

Which genetic difference and what scientific criteria are used to determine that those differences are what ought to be the determining predicates for any racial set?

[4588686]

 

When I say that someone is of a different race, it is very, very clear I am speaking about genetic differences that have affected very different physical traits between various groups.  People know exactly what I mean no matter which society they are in.  Until a better word is provided than race, then I am compelled to use the term despite how imprecise it is. 

 

 

 

Right.  And that's why you described Chechens as white, Europeans and in Russia Chechens are largely considered not at all white or European.  That's also why when my Jewish family members first came here from Russia and Romania they were considered of a different race from the white one.  Because racial categories are temporally and socially constant.  

 

Edited February 1, 2014 by Hasan

[NotreDame]

Which genetic difference and what scientific criteria are used to determine that those differences are what ought to be the determining predicates for any racial set?

 

Maybe the fact that you can test for it in a lab?

 

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/magazine/16-01/ps_dna

 

What scientific criteria do you use to justify eschewing non-violent solutions to terrorism because you want to push your social ideology down other people's throat even if it results in death and murder?

[4588686]

Maybe the fact that you can test for it in a lab?

 

http://www.wired.com/politics/law/magazine/16-01/ps_dna

 

What scientific criteria do you use to justify eschewing non-violent solutions to terrorism because you want to push your social ideology down other people's throat even if it results in death and murder?

 

 

I don't know how many times I can say this.  Genetic variance in human beings is a real, biological thing. The racial categories that encapsulate some of that variance are not.  

 

Here. 

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/does-race-exist.html