SilentJoy Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Can you point me in the direction of the quotes where this is the case SJ? So far in 50 years of reading I have not come across any. True happiness can never come from unhappiness......... I have noted plenty of those in (and out) of RL who say it is hard, difficult, a challenge, takes every ounce of strength, yes, I have read and heard that many times. God does not want us to be unhappy. If self sacrifice causes us unhappiness, if the penance of the cloister does not bring ultimate joy, then there is something amiss. Getting up at 4.30 am every morning never filled me with enthusiasm, however, I was never more joyful than when I arrived in choir ready to sing my praise to the Lord of All, more so when this was in the pre dawn chill. Giving up the self is painful, yes, I will agree to that. Makes you unhappy.....er no, on the contrary. I don't mean that unhappiness makes happiness, but sometimes I misunderstand. I am thinking of quotes like these: "I do not wish for any consolation except what comes from You, not now, but in heaven; what does it matter whether I live a happy life, so long as I live a religious life. I willingly surrender my heart to affliction, sadness, and labor. I am happy in not being happy, because fasting in this life precedes the eternal banquet which awaits me." - Saint Teresa Margaret Redi of the Heart of Jesus "In all that I do, I have to sacrifice my own feelings." - St. Theresa of Lisieux Or maybe the quote from Lourdes, when Bernadette was told, "I cannot promise you happiness in this life, but only in the next." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentJoy Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Can I direct you to the book 'A Right to be Merry' by Mother Mary Francis? It is true it is about Poor Clares, but I think it gives an excellent insight into why a life of poverty and penance is so joyful, happy and fulfilling. Thank you, I will look it up! I enjoyed her book on the "Anima Christi" prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentJoy Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 If you do not already have one, find a good Spiritual Director. Depending on where you live, many religious Communities have Spiritual Directors or can recommend one for you. Your Diocese will have an office as well which can be another good resource. Regardless of where you are in your spiritual life, a good spiritual director can really support you on this journey. Thank you; I do have a Spiritual Director now (I didn't last year). Actually, I kind of have two all of a sudden. :hehe2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 "In all that I do, I have to sacrifice my own feelings." - St. Theresa of Lisieux This is true in any state of life though. For example I dont feel like getting up and going to work and at work I may not feel like working but I set that aside and do what I have to do. Parents dont feel like getting up at 2am to care for a crying child but they do it. I might not feel like paying my rent but I do that too. There are greater, more important things in life than how I feel such as how my loved ones feel or how God feels. If they are happy then thats what matters. As for visiting Carmel, the first time I went I packed a few little snacks like granola bars because I thought I might be hungry later in my room. Boy was i wrong they fed me so well hunger was the last issue I had!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eowyn Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I will second the book A Right to Be Merry. Excellent read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentJoy Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 This is true in any state of life though. I know; but I had been interpreting it a little differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 oh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hmm, yes, I see what you mean, but do we have evidence that these people were unhappy?Being willing to sacrifice one's happiness, yes, that is one thing, and many of our saints do express themselves in this way - sorry if I misunderstood. However, I think that very willingness to forego happiness, to give up our earthly joys and to sacrifice one's feelings, ultimately brings happiness - or rather, contentment, if one knows that is what He asks. Have you ever seen a photo of a miserable nun? A suffering one, maybe....... There is no merit in misery. However, I do think there is room for misinterpretation, that to truly sacrifice must bring misery, but if it is a true sacrifice then it may be painful, physically, emotionally, even spiritually, but there is contentment at the same time knowing all is as He wills. It is not an easy path, I agree, but please don't enter a community prepared for misery as if this is the path to sainthood...... Look for joy, in the community, in the Sisters. Is there laughter, do people have or have they retained their sense of humour, the ability most of all not to take themselves too seriously? I would avoid like the plague a community where there is obvious hostility or bitterness in the Sisterhood. The loveliest and for me too, surprising thing about the community I joined was the amount of laughter that went on. I had naively equated piousness with lack of joy or merriment. Thankfully my community soon jollied me out of such notions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary's Margaret Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 As Doctor of the Church, St. Teresa of Avila, wrote: “A sad nun is a bad nun,†.... “I am more afraid of one unhappy sister than a crowd of evil spirits…" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentJoy Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 oh I hope I wasn't rude. :blush: I was checking the Phorums on someone else's computer so I might have answered too briefly. I agree with what you wrote about how the sacrifice of feelings should be understood; its just that, when I initially read it, I had been trying - with a lot of grief - to do something that I thought was the will of God, and I thought that perhaps St. Therese was talking about killing her heart, rather than just doing good things in spite of how she might feel about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentJoy Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Hmm, yes, I see what you mean, but do we have evidence that these people were unhappy?Being willing to sacrifice one's happiness, yes, that is one thing, and many of our saints do express themselves in this way - sorry if I misunderstood. However, I think that very willingness to forego happiness, to give up our earthly joys and to sacrifice one's feelings, ultimately brings happiness - or rather, contentment, if one knows that is what He asks. Have you ever seen a photo of a miserable nun? A suffering one, maybe....... There is no merit in misery. However, I do think there is room for misinterpretation, that to truly sacrifice must bring misery, but if it is a true sacrifice then it may be painful, physically, emotionally, even spiritually, but there is contentment at the same time knowing all is as He wills. It is not an easy path, I agree, but please don't enter a community prepared for misery as if this is the path to sainthood...... Look for joy, in the community, in the Sisters. Is there laughter, do people have or have they retained their sense of humour, the ability most of all not to take themselves too seriously? I would avoid like the plague a community where there is obvious hostility or bitterness in the Sisterhood. The loveliest and for me too, surprising thing about the community I joined was the amount of laughter that went on. I had naively equated piousness with lack of joy or merriment. Thankfully my community soon jollied me out of such notions! Thanks; I'm coming around. I've started to realize that when I'm being a little morbid and thinking that it is God's will for me to be miserable, I'm probably trying to do something that I think is God's will when maybe it isn't. That's why I stopped the application process; it was a wonderful and happy community, and I'm still interested in that Order, but I was applying to them mainly because that seemed to be the "right thing" to do, not because it was were I really wanted to be. (Granted, that seems absurd...just think of what I have to deal with, I'm the one that has to go home with me. :rotfl2: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Oh believe me, I have at times spent much energy, worry and heartache insisting on something I 'knew' was His will for me......only to find out it was my will for me! :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) I hope I wasn't rude. :blush: I was checking the Phorums on someone else's computer so I might have answered too briefly. I agree with what you wrote about how the sacrifice of feelings should be understood; its just that, when I initially read it, I had been trying - with a lot of grief - to do something that I thought was the will of God, and I thought that perhaps St. Therese was talking about killing her heart, rather than just doing good things in spite of how she might feel about it. no you werent rude, its hard to convey things across the internet plus having to deal st therese's translations from teh original french so who knows what she really meant :P :topsy: eta plus im running on too much work and not enough sleep Edited February 2, 2014 by vee8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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