10 Reasons Why Men Shouldnt Be Ordained

[mortify ii]

I think I would agree with Basilisa that some development of our understanding of gender is required, or at least reminding ourselves what it really means. Clearly in the supernatural order we're dealing with more than differences of anatomy and endocrinology. There seems to be something really different here. It was Adam's sin that brought the race down, and not Eve's. God became man, and not a woman. Men are can participate spiritually in a way that women can not. There is more here that is simply lost to the secular mind which seeks to make the complementary halves identical and indistinguishable. 

[Socrates]

Yes! I'm not a huge fan of Alice von Hildebrand. I tend to think she takes a more masculine view of femininity and womanhood. That is, it really doesn't strike me as any different from what most male theologians have said about femininity (womanhood is "mysterious" and "gentle" and always passive and you just have to meditate on this to get it). Her work still leaves me with a lot to be desired. 

 

While I'm hardly an expert, from what I've seen, I wouldn't describe Dr. Hildebrand's views as "masculine."

 

Not all women are feminists, and I don't think non-feminist women are in any sense less women than feminists are.

 

While you may not agree with her, I don't think she's any less a woman, or more "masculine" than you and other feminist women.

 

(In fact, many more traditional women would probably argue that it's your feminist views that are masculine, and measuring worth from a male perspective.)

 

I also don't think that it's necessary for female Catholic theologians to take a radically different view of sex/gender than orthodox Catholic male theologians.

 

Do you consider men who are feminists or sympathetic to feminist views of gender roles to be less masculine than men with more traditional views?

 

I'm not trying to rehash the whole feminism debate here are argue about who's right and wrong, but just wanted to point out how one need not ascribed to feminist views to be a "real woman."

 

It seems a lot of feminists see modern feminism (of some form or the other) as the only valid female viewpoint - though its actually a historically extremely recent ideology (for either men or women).

 

But I'm a male, so my two cents on this is probably worthless. 

[Socrates]

It's always puzzled me why some people who don't believe in the Church, the priesthood, or even God, get so worked up about the all-male priesthood.

 

I mean, I don't give two craps about who is or isn't considered qualified for various roles in the Church of Scientology.  (Or who can or can't be president of the local Atheist Club, for that matter.)

Regarding the former, I would spend more time trying to get people to leave that sick cult, rather than ensure that its internal policies conform to my personal beliefs.

 

If the Church is not real, and its teachings not true, we shouldn't care about the priesthood, or who can or can't be priest.  Nobody's forced to be a Catholic.

If the Church is real, however, we should conform to Her teachings, rather than try to change them to suit our personal preferences.

[NotreDame]

It's always puzzled me why some people who don't believe in the Church, the priesthood, or even God, get so worked up about the all-male priesthood.

I'm sure this is rhetorical at some level, but I'll take the bait... It's because the church is an impediment to their agenda, they want to do anything they can to weaken it, and attacking the priesthood is their most effective tactic.

 

[PhuturePriest]

While I'm hardly an expert, from what I've seen, I wouldn't describe Dr. Hildebrand's views as "masculine."

Not all women are feminists, and I don't think non-feminist women are in any sense less women than feminists are.

While you may not agree with her, I don't think she's any less a woman, or more "masculine" than you and other feminist women.

(In fact, many more traditional women would probably argue that it's your feminist views that are masculine, and measuring worth from a male perspective.)

I also don't think that it's necessary for female Catholic theologians to take a radically different view of sex/gender than orthodox Catholic male theologians.

Do you consider men who are feminists or sympathetic to feminist views of gender roles to be less masculine than men with more traditional views?

I'm not trying to rehash the whole feminism debate here are argue about who's right and wrong, but just wanted to point out how one need not ascribed to feminist views to be a "real woman."

It seems a lot of feminists see modern feminism (of some form or the other) as the only valid female viewpoint - though its actually a historically extremely recent ideology (for either men or women).

But I'm a male, so my two cents on this is probably worthless.

Don't jump the gun, now. She was saying Hildebrand's writings on femininity were masculine, not Hildebrand herself. Major difference. She also never implied or insinuated that Hildebrand was "less of a woman" because she isn't a feminist. It's honestly probably offensive for you to say that when Basilisa never said or touched upon anything of the sort.

Edited February 5, 2014 by FuturePriest387

[Basilisa Marie]

Don't jump the gun, now. She was saying Hildebrand's writings on femininity were masculine, not Hildebrand herself. Major difference. She also never implied or insinuated that Hildebrand was "less of a woman" because she isn't a feminist. It's honestly probably offensive for you to say that when Basilisa never said or touched upon anything of the sort.

 

That's why I said that even though her writings don't do it for me, I'm still intelligent enough to recognize how important she is to the conversation about theology of womanhood and women in the Church.  By "masculine" I meant that they strike me as looking at femininity from the outside, in (hence they're pretty much the same as what a lot of male theologians say about women). It's not about trying to promote my personal brand of feminism. It's about trying to get some different perspectives going so that maybe we can come up with something a little more nuanced. My personal feelings about Hildebrand aren't relevant, but Nihil asked me about them.  And doing things like working on our theology of men and women will help us do a better job of explaining and defending Church teachings, and maybe help people accept them more easily.