Consecrated Virgin In The World - 50 Words Or Less

[God's Beloved]

Can I re-add my question:

 

1) Under Apostolorum Successores n.104, (as i already quoted - also avaliable via google) the Bishop has special care for the order of virgins . In the USA, it seems the bishop meets with them every year or 6 months, i am not sure what other things they do under this section.  

 

in my country, the diocesan bishop told me they do not have have time for this. so the only way we adhere to this section is by the prvision of an informal national gathering (comprising about 20 elderly ex-nuns), and a Bishop-Emeritus who sometimes comes for one day.

 

After consecration, the CV never meets the bishop(s) ever again. This seems to me to go against Apostolorum n.104. Am I right? What can be done?

 

This is happening because the Bishops in some countries do not understand the significance of the pastoral meetings with cons. virgins. It is in the tradition of the Church . Consecrated virgins in the world are closer to the lives of the People and their joys , struggles , concerns etc....than most other people belonging to Institutions. This conversation between the Bishop and CV is a pastoral and informal dialogue. The CV represents the Church herself .....she is a VOICE of the People , especially those people who are on the margins of the Church and society. Traditionally the CV were very close to the poor and the suffering.

 

This dialogue is an informal way of the CV collaborating with the Bishop in the Pastoral care of the flock. Her opinions about the needs of the diocese will spring from a Maternal concern for the Diocese [ like Mother Mary interceding for people ]. But both Bishops and CV need to realize the importance of this conversation . I think in my country they have begun to understand the significance.

 

It makes no sense for an Emeritus Bishop to fulfill this role. He can of course be a good resource person and guide to CV , but cannot take the role of the Diocesan bishop active in the care of the people.

[oremus1]

Oremus1: But, couldn't the consecrated virgin's attire be considered in a similar way to that of the secular priest. Canon law expects the secular priest to wear suitable ecclesiastical clothing? The 1962 Rite allowed for blessing of habits. This part of the Rite was dropped in the 1970 revision. But it was dropped for both nuns and women living in the world. So this dropping is not prohibiting any visual sign of consecration.

Cecilia: Married women and consecrated virgins have certain similarities, but the consecrated virgin's spousal relationship with Christ manifests itself in a particular public consecration. The Consecrated Virgin is a mother within the communion of the Church. In the rite, this is the prayer for the giving of the veil:

'Receive this veil,

by which you are to show

that you have been chosen from other women

to be dedicated to the service of Christ

and of his body, which is the Church.’

That wording does seem to imply continuing to wear the veil in order to show others outside what the Consecrated Virgin is dedicated to.

Fr J: I do not think the dropping of blessing of garments is significant , because the version of the rite intended for nuns is distinct frm to the nuns normal religious profession which would include the giviong of the habit, also the giving of the veil already. , which is why the Rite does not allow repeating of the confering of the veil for nuns who have already recived it. this is also why the parts relating to the giving of habit is taken out - beause the nun would have already recieved it as part of her religious profession.

[oremus1]

This is happening because the Bishops in some countries do not understand the significance of the pastoral meetings with cons. virgins. It is in the tradition of the Church . Consecrated virgins in the world are closer to the lives of the People and their joys , struggles , concerns etc....than most other people belonging to Institutions. This conversation between the Bishop and CV is a pastoral and informal dialogue. The CV represents the Church herself .....she is a VOICE of the People , especially those people who are on the margins of the Church and society. Traditionally the CV were very close to the poor and the suffering.

 

This dialogue is an informal way of the CV collaborating with the Bishop in the Pastoral care of the flock. Her opinions about the needs of the diocese will spring from a Maternal concern for the Diocese [ like Mother Mary interceding for people ]. But both Bishops and CV need to realize the importance of this conversation . I think in my country they have begun to understand the significance.

 

It makes no sense for an Emeritus Bishop to fulfill this role. He can of course be a good resource person and guide to CV , but cannot take the role of the Diocesan bishop active in the care of the people.

 

the bishop basically made out that the CV was imposing a burden to have these meetings, and she probably already has an SD (Apostolorum requires the bishop to provide them with one who is good and has knowledge of the vocation - thoug this doesnt happen),

 

Just to be clear, the Bishop Emeretis is  for CVs nationally living in another part of the country. he is not a bishop emereits of my diocese.I suppose its a bit like if diocsean bishops delegated thgeir obligations to Bp Boyea of the USACV.

 

but how binding is Apostolorum, is it just a guideline?

[oremus1]

This is happening because the Bishops in some countries do not understand the significance of the pastoral meetings with cons. virgins. It is in the tradition of the Church . Consecrated virgins in the world are closer to the lives of the People and their joys , struggles , concerns etc....than most other people belonging to Institutions. This conversation between the Bishop and CV is a pastoral and informal dialogue. The CV represents the Church herself .....she is a VOICE of the People , especially those people who are on the margins of the Church and society. Traditionally the CV were very close to the poor and the suffering.

 

This dialogue is an informal way of the CV collaborating with the Bishop in the Pastoral care of the flock. Her opinions about the needs of the diocese will spring from a Maternal concern for the Diocese [ like Mother Mary interceding for people ]. But both Bishops and CV need to realize the importance of this conversation . I think in my country they have begun to understand the significance.

 

It makes no sense for an Emeritus Bishop to fulfill this role. He can of course be a good resource person and guide to CV , but cannot take the role of the Diocesan bishop active in the care of the people.

 

the bishop basically made out that the CV was imposing a burden to have these meetings, and she probably already has an SD (Apostolorum requires the bishop to provide them with one who is good and has knowledge of the vocation - thoug this doesnt happen),

 

Just to be clear, the Bishop Emeretis is  for CVs nationally living in another part of the country. he is not a bishop emereits of my diocese.I suppose its a bit like if diocsean bishops delegated thgeir obligations to Bp Boyea of the USACV.

 

but how binding is Apostolorum, is it just a guideline?

[oremus1]

the bishop basically made out that the CV was imposing a burden to have these meetings, and she probably already has an SD (Apostolorum requires the bishop to provide them with one who is good and has knowledge of the vocation - thoug this doesnt happen),

 

Just to be clear, the Bishop Emeretis is  for CVs nationally living in another part of the country. he is not a bishop emereits of my diocese.I suppose its a bit like if diocsean bishops delegated thgeir obligations to Bp Boyea of the USACV.

 

but how binding is Apostolorum, is it just a guideline?

Another question in addition to the above.

in our country, the consecration is usually in the CV's parish church, delegated to the priest (we have talked about that already). My parish is not canonically a 'parish', it is a worship community who shares the church of another parish, and the priest has told me that he doesnt agree with the consecration of virgins therefore it cannot be held our church. he says that a vocation like that with no structures or habits is unfair to the ladies, and he does not support it. so what happens?

[Lilllabettt]

Oremus1: But, couldn't the consecrated virgin's attire be considered in a similar way to that of the secular priest. Canon law expects the secular priest to wear suitable ecclesiastical clothing? [...]

In the rite, this is the prayer for the giving of the veil:

'Receive this veil,

by which you are to show

that you have been chosen from other women

to be dedicated to the service of Christ

and of his body, which is the Church.’

That wording does seem to imply continuing to wear the veil in order to show others outside what the Consecrated Virgin is dedicated to.

 

 

Hmmm this is a very good post.

If the veil is bestowed specifically to show that a CV has been "chosen from other women" then it would seem she would go on wearing it post-consecration to go on showing that.

 

What seems like a good idea is ...  if not a veil ... than some type of "uniform" for CVs, akin to that of clerical clothing for secular clergy ... some publicly identifiable insignia which is theirs exclusively, but is not so rigidly imposed as to be definitely "required" in all circumstances. Something like the roman collar -- it identifies a man as a priest, and yet he is free to do without it should he decide the situation warrants it.

 

I think it would add public visibility to the vocation -- which is, in any case, public.
 

[God's Beloved]

The Rite itself suggests that it should be held in the Cathedral to signify the link of the CV with the Diocese. In that sense a parish priest has NO RIGHT  to stop an already consecrated virgin to live her vocation and service to the church fully.....as it is agreed between the bishop and the CV before consecration.

BUT

There is also a practice in some dioceses around the world , for the Bishop to require the opinion of the Parish Priest or his Diocesan Council of priests before electing a woman for Consecration.

 

Although having the ceremony in the Cathedral is the theological Ideal , if the ceremony is held in her own parish , it  helps the CV to live her vocation in the parish. People feel attracted to such rare ceremony especially when a Bishop presides. They may not understand the vocation but will realize that there is something significant about it. This will prevent them from making it difficult for her to serve the parish after consecration.

 

[abrideofChrist]

Hmmm this is a very good post.

If the veil is bestowed specifically to show that a CV has been "chosen from other women" then it would seem she would go on wearing it post-consecration to go on showing that.

 

What seems like a good idea is ...  if not a veil ... than some type of "uniform" for CVs, akin to that of clerical clothing for secular clergy ... some publicly identifiable insignia which is theirs exclusively, but is not so rigidly imposed as to be definitely "required" in all circumstances. Something like the roman collar -- it identifies a man as a priest, and yet he is free to do without it should he decide the situation warrants it.

 

I think it would add public visibility to the vocation -- which is, in any case, public.
 

 

The veil, Lillibet, is bestowed specifically as bridal insignia along with the ring.  If you have read about the flammeum, you would understand that it was used ONCE in a lifetime on the wedding day itself.  The flammeum was given to brides and both consecrated virgins and spouses were veiled by the bishop and priest respectively on their wedding day.  Henceforth, a woman who was married to Christ or to a man, wore a veil, which was the cultural symbol of having the married status.  Such women never again wore the flammeum because it was a bridal veil worn only on the day of nuptials.  Culturally, the emphasis shifted, and women began to wear veils to be married in, whereas the bishop continued to veil virgins with the flammeum and later the religious veil for women religious.  Only the bishop can veil a (consecrated) virgin since he represents Christ the bridegroom.  But priests can veil religious (virgins and chaste women) and "widows" (non-virgins).  Priests, by the way, are required to wear clerical dress.  Consecrated virgins are not required to wear the bridal veil descendant of the flammeum.  Indeed, CVs in the dual vocation of being in secular institutes, are forbidden to do so by the nature of their vows and the nature of secular life.  For people used to imposing a religious life paradigm upon all forms of consecrated life, the idea of a cv not wearing distinctive dress may take getting used to, but have no fear.  The Church has already made that part of the vocation quite clear.

Edited February 2, 2014 by abrideofChrist

[abrideofChrist]

For those opining that a CV must wear "distinctive dress" or her bridal veil, I ask that you contact a world class theologian, canonist, or liturgist with this thread and a copy of the entire Rite -with its praenotandae which spells out the nature of the vocation and the main duties of consecrated virgins- and ask if there is any possible way that such an obligation could be construed.  No one worth their salt would conclude that such an obligation exists, particularly when they realize that ANY virgin living in the world, including those belonging to secular institutes, can be consecrated.  Secular institutes by definition are meant to blend in with the world.  Church documents make it clear that they do not wear distinctive dress and this is explicitly stated in the Church's magisterial teachings contrasting the secular vocation against the religious vocation.  Remember that consecrated secular institute members make vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience.  Remember that they hold secular jobs and do not traipse around in cute veils.  Recall that they enter a public vocation but that a public vocation is different from the public "witness" demanded by the Church of religious.  The Church has never demanded this public "witness" of consecrated virgins because that is terminology specifying separation from the world.  Ponder the reasons why a woman can make the vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience, and be able to own money and have a secular job in a secular institute whereas the same woman who makes those vows in a religious institute cannot use (or in some cases even own) money the same way.  The Church has taught that the vows do not of themselves require separation from the world.  Again, food for thought.  Evangelical poverty can be lived out in a wholly secular fashion!  Yes, the Church has a variety of lifestyles, and it is well for people to remember this and to respect the fact that we are not all religious even if we CVs and people in secular institutes have a true consecration that is different but equal.

Edited February 2, 2014 by abrideofChrist

[God's Beloved]

the bishop basically made out that the CV was imposing a burden to have these meetings, and she probably already has an SD (Apostolorum requires the bishop to provide them with one who is good and has knowledge of the vocation - thoug this doesnt happen),

 

Just to be clear, the Bishop Emeretis is  for CVs nationally living in another part of the country. he is not a bishop emereits of my diocese.I suppose its a bit like if diocsean bishops delegated thgeir obligations to Bp Boyea of the USACV.

 

but how binding is Apostolorum, is it just a guideline?

 

The Pastoral dialogue with the bishop is just that : a PASTORAL DIALOGUE .

1. She comes directly under his pastoral care.

2. It is also a dialogue between two pastors because she is called to collaborate with the bishop who has elected and dedicated her to the service of the Church.

 

It is not Spiritual Direction . However there are dioceses where the bishop or his auxiliary are her SD or for an association of CV. It depends on local circumstances.

[Sponsa-Christi]

Oremus,

 

To try to answer your questions briefly…yes, the Rite and Apostolorum does seem to envision that the bishop have an ongoing, direct relationship with his consecrated virgins. I believe that both of these documents are binding. Certainly the Rite is. 

 

Technically, I don’t think this relationship necessarily has to be something like a warm personal mentorship (as good and fitting as that would be!) But I think it is fairly clear that the Church wants bishops to at least: 1. meet a candidate before her consecration; 2. know who the CVs in his diocese are, and have at least a basic idea of what kind of life they’re living; 3. provide CVs with at least some sort of avenue for dialogue with him; 4. provide for their spiritual needs, including some level of ongoing formation.

 

However, if none of these things are happening, practically speaking there’s not very much a CV or candidate can do to fix the situation. Hypothetically, even if one were to write to the Congregation for Religious in Rome---and even if the Congregation were to get involved---nobody can compel a bishop to take a personal pastoral interest in someone or something. Even if the Pope were theoretically to order a bishop to meet with a CV (which of course is wildly unlikely!), he still can’t make the bishop happy about that meeting! If a bishop is already convinced that consecrated virgins are merely a nuisance in the diocese, even Rome can’t get into his head and forcibly make him change his honest opinions.

 

Leaving aside for the moment specific concrete issues of validity vs. non-validly (which I think can be handled in a more direct and pro-active way in many cases), I think the best way to try to amend this kind of pastoral "lack" is for us CVs to try to live our consecrated lives in as exemplary and generous a fashion as possible—while at the same time striving to become ever more patient, gentle, respectful, and self-effacing. If we do this, then maybe our living witness might eventually convince bishops that we’re a good thing for the Church.

 

Is this hard and sometimes heartbreaking? Yes, of course! But the reality is that this is one of the main crosses of being a consecrated virgin at this point in time.

[Sponsa-Christi]

For those interested, the USACV website has a copy of the full Rite in English, including the preanotanda: http://consecratedvirgins.org/usacv/sites/default/files/documents/VocRes-Decree.pdf

 

On my blog, I also have a page with excepts and links to some of the other documents: http://sponsa-christi.blogspot.it/p/church-documents-on-consecrated.html (With my apologies for the shameless plug here!) 

[brandelynmarie]

Regarding post #71 Sponsa-Christi, thank you for answering the question of the role the bishop should "ideally" play in the life of a CV. I was wondering how that could work...Thank goodness there are blogs & forums where CV's can offer regular support & dialogue for one another....but I do find it troublesome that the bishops who consecrate virgins are not always providing regular support & formation to CV's...

Edited February 2, 2014 by brandelynmarie

[God's Beloved]

Regarding post #71 Sponsa-Christi, thank you for answering the question of the role the bishop should "ideally" play in the life of a CV. I was wondering how that could work...Thank goodness there are blogs & forums where CV's can offer regular support & dialogue for one another....but I do find it troublesome that the bishops who consecrate virgins are not always providing regular support & formation to CV's...

 

Sometimes I wonder how much of the philosophy and theology taught in seminaries is actually followed in concrete circumstances of daily life.

 

Think about it .....a Bishop is supposed to reflect God's love to the people in the diocese. If  he consecrates a woman  and then forgets about her ,  the Image he is projecting is that  our religion is like Deism [Deism holds that God does not intervene with the functioning of the natural world in any way, allowing it to run according to the laws of nature ].

 

The theology of CV is very rich ......but concrete daily living  seems of often Image something else.

[maximillion]

Question  (I have not read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere).

 

I made Solemn Vows, and was released from these seven years later.

 

Am I a CV?