Consecrated Virgin In The World - 50 Words Or Less

[HisChildForever]

This is the weirdest debate I have read in a long time. :|

 

Yeah...I honestly have no idea what's going on here. :huh:

[Maggyie]

Yeah...I honestly have no idea what's going on here. :huh:

 

It's a thread about consecrated virginity... the vocation that the bishops revived without thinking everything through first and getting all the theological/canonical ducks in a row. So of course, train wreck.

[abrideofChrist]

It's a thread about consecrated virginity... the vocation that the bishops revived without thinking everything through first and getting all the theological/canonical ducks in a row. So of course, train wreck.

 

Perhaps this is your view of the vocation, but certainly not the Church's.  The ducks were lined in a row and carefully considered before the Rite was revised.  It is people with their own agendas who make things "uncertain" because they push for interpretations that go against tradition and against the said theological and canonical ducks lined in the row. 

 

Here's just one example.  People who have not read basic Church documents such as the Catholic Catechism and Vita Consecrata (two foundational documents, btw) will make the theologically unsound claim that "the propositum, not the virgin is consecrated".  Whereas if you actually read the Rite, it is clear that the bishop consecrates the virgin.  If you read the Catechism you read that

 

 1672    Certain blessings have a lasting importance because they consecrate persons to God, or reserve objects and places for liturgical use. Among those blessings which are intended for persons—not to be confused with sacramental ordination—are the blessing of the abbot or abbess of a monastery, the consecration of virgins and widows, the rite of religious profession and the blessing of certain ministries of the Church (readers, acolytes, catechists, etc.). The dedication or blessing of a church or an altar, the blessing of holy oils, vessels, and vestments, bells, etc., can be mentioned as examples of blessings that concern objects. (923, 925, 903)

 

If you read Vita Consecrata, you will find that consecrations confer a new grace upon the person that is not included in baptism and confirmation.

[BarbTherese]

If you read Vita Consecrata, you will find that consecrations confer a new grace upon the person that is not included in baptism and confirmation.

 

 

To read about the above go to Vita Consecrata http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_25031996_vita-consecrata_en.html

 

Scroll down to: "New and special consecration":  Paragraph 30 ......... and if you read on further, it is all instructive and interesting.

There may be other references and perhaps even better references in the document. 

 

I found these words particularly beautiful (from Vita Consecrata)

: "To the degree that consecrated persons let themselves be guided by the Spirit to the heights of perfection they can exclaim: "I see the beauty of your grace, I contemplate its radiance, I reflect its light; I am caught up in its ineffable splendour; I am taken outside myself as I think of myself; I see how I was and what I have become. O wonder! I am vigilant, I am full of respect for myself, of reverence and of fear, as I would be were I before you; I do not know what to do, I am seized by fear, I do not know where to sit, where to go, where to put these members which are yours; in what deeds, in what works shall I use them, these amazing divine marvels!"The consecrated life thus becomes one of the tangible seals which the Trinity impresses upon history, so that people can sense with longing the attraction of divine beauty." (Scroll to "The Evangelical Counsels, Gift of the Trinity Paragraph 20)

 

 

[BarbTherese]

The beautiful quotation in Vita Consecrata (my previous psot) apparently comes from (Google Search):

 

"Let us therefore abandon ourselves to the liberating action of the Spirit, making our own the amazement of Symeon the New Theologian, who addresses the third divine Person in these words:  "I see the beauty of your grace, I contemplate its radiance, I reflect its light; I am caught up in its ineffable splendour; I am taken outside myself as I think of myself; I see how I was and what I have become. O wonder! I am vigilant, I am full of respect for myself, of reverence and of fear, as I would be were I before you; I do not know what to do, I am seized by fear, I do not know where to sit, where to go, where to put these members which are yours; in what deeds, in what works shall I use them, these amazing divine marvels!" (Hymns, II, verses 19-27:  cf. Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation Vita consecrata, n. 20)."  (John Paul II General Audience Wed 13Sept 2000 http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/2000/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_20000913_en.html )

[oremus1]

Perhaps this is your view of the vocation, but certainly not the Church's. 

 

Perhaps this is your way of expressing yourself, but it certainly isn't polite.

 

 

Here's just one example.  People who have not read basic Church documents ...

Here is just one example.

 

 

How about phrasing things differently?  There is really no need to be confrontational on every CV thread, is there?

[abrideofChrist]

Perhaps this is your way of expressing yourself, but it certainly isn't polite.

 

 

Here is just one example.

 

 

How about phrasing things differently?  There is really no need to be confrontational on every CV thread, is there?

 

 It is insulting to CVs to have their vocation described as a train wreck because some vocal CVs don't know enough about their own vocation but nevertheless pontificate on the matter.  There have been people who have given up on the vocation specifically because lies have been made about it by people who should know better.

Edited January 30, 2014 by abrideofChrist

[Aloysius]

This post is in the debate table rather than vocation station in order to allow for confrontational tones and debates over the issue. The tone of the debate table is not suitable for everyone. Feel free to report if the tone goes over into vocation station which should be a safe haven for exploring vocations without confrontations or debate.

[oremus1]

It's a thread about consecrated virginity... the vocation that the bishops revived without thinking everything through first and getting all the theological/canonical ducks in a row. So of course, train wreck.

 

 

 It is insulting to CVs to have their vocation described as a train wreck because some vocal CVs don't know enough about their own vocation but nevertheless pontificate on the matter.  There have been people who have given up on the vocation specifically because lies have been made about it by people who should know better.

 

Really? I'd actually be more interested in the vocation if i met CV who is truly joyful and radiates true love of Christ, who has a genuine desire to show charity, kindness and love toward others, and who actually strives towards true holiness - even if they were not well read or well qualified, because their life and disposition is a testimony to their vocation. If such a CV met a less educated or well read one, I am sure they would politely explain themselves. What would Our Lady do?

 

Unfortunately some CVs who are well educated, abuse that grace by taking every possible opportunity to be confrontational, to belittle, to be condescending or otherwise patronise others would actually put me off far more. I would wonder why they felt a need to be so horrible and be constantly putting everyone down, asserting how much more they know than everyone.

 

While they might know all the right documents in their head, it is self evident that such beautiful teachings are not in their heart.

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/122838-bride-of-christ/page-17

Edited January 30, 2014 by oremus1

[oremus1]

This post is in the debate table rather than vocation station in order to allow for confrontational tones and debates over the issue. The tone of the debate table is not suitable for everyone. Feel free to report if the tone goes over into vocation station which should be a safe haven for exploring vocations without confrontations or debate.

 

oh right i am definately in the wrong place, i shall head over to there thanks!

 

when i see religious / consecrated people being aggressive or confrontational to each other, it makes me sad :ohno:   

[abrideofChrist]

Oremus, all of the educated CVs I know are joyful, humble women.  I actually am happy you are contributing to the conversations on this vocation.  We don't necessarily see eye to eye on things, but I think it is because of a lack of common understanding of definitions than anything else.  I hope that you'll have a great consecration and bask in the beauty of this call.

[cmaD2006]

This post is in the debate table rather than vocation station in order to allow for confrontational tones and debates over the issue. The tone of the debate table is not suitable for everyone. Feel free to report if the tone goes over into vocation station which should be a safe haven for exploring vocations without confrontations or debate.

 

And for those reading this thread ... this is why I strongly suggested (in Vocation Station) that any continued discussions of the sort move here.  This sort of tone, while *not* allowed in Vocation Station, *is* allowed in Debate Table as long as it doesn't go over the top (into a personal attack, for example).

[Cecilia]

cmaD2006 and Aloysius, Thank you for the explanations. Maggie, Bienvenue à l'accident de train – (I assume you are joking in your comment…).  

 

God’s beloved, Intriguing comment about the comparison with religious profession. aBrideofChrist and Barbara Therese, Vita consecrata signifies greatly. Without it one is lost.

 

Oremus1, The consecrated virgins in the world that I know are kind women. – I do not know any that are cloistered.

[Cecilia]

From the British Province of Carmelite Friars – Some reflections on living a spirit of poverty.

 

http://www.carmelite.org/index.php?nuc=content&id=237

 

The Evangelical Counsels

All Christians are invited to practice the 'Evangelical Counsels' of poverty, chastity and obedience. Professed members of the Carmelite Family - that is those religious or laity who make a public statement of wanting to live the Carmelite way of life - make promises or vows to follow these Evangelical Counsels.

They are called the ‘evangelical’ counsels because we find them lived and therefore recommended (counselled) by Jesus in the four accounts of the Gospel ('evangelium' in Latin). Jesus Christ was poor in spirit, chaste in heart, and obedient in love to the will of his Father. The evangelical counsels are a useful support in our pursuit of living - as the Carmelite Rule states - 'in allegiance to Jesus Christ'.

All Christians are called to live as Christ lived, and Carmelites profess to do this publicly through the evangelical counsels. The evangelical counsels are closely linked to the way of life of religious communities, because although people have been living the evangelical counsels since the time of Jesus it was not until the development of monastic and mendicant communities that these virtues were professed publicly with the swearing of a vow or promise. Vows of poverty, chastity and obedience are now taken in some form by all formal congregations and orders of religious in the Roman Catholic Church, and the counsels are regarded as the foundation of their conduct and way of life.

A universal invitation

However, the invitation to live poor, chaste and obedient is not restricted to religious and clergy. All Jesus’ followers are invited to adopt these principles in whatever way is appropriate to them. The evangelical counsels are recommended for all the baptised. Both the 1983 Code of Canon Law (§207 # 2) and the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church (§873) remind us that within both the clergy and the laity ‘there exist Christian faithful who are consecrated to God in their own special manner and serve the salvific mission of the Church through the profession of the evangelical counsels.’ The Catechism states that those who profess the evangelical counsels publicly within a permanent state of life recognised by the Church live a consecrated life. So it can be said that, even though they are not religious, in making the profession proper to the Carmelite Third Order, lay Carmelites consecrate their lives to God as a deepening of their baptismal commitment.

The 2003 Rule for the Third Order of Carmel also reminds lay Carmelites that they are invited in a special way to adopt poverty, chastity and obedience as part of their way of life:

The spirit of the evangelical counsels, common to all Christians, becomes for the Tertiaries a plan for life which touches the areas of power, of sensuality and of material goods. The vows are an ever greater demand not to serve false idols, but to attain that freedom of loving God and neighbour which is above all forms of egoism. Holiness lies in the fulfilment of this double command to love. (§13)

Poverty, chastity, and obedience are not ends in themselves; they are virtues we practice so as to conform more closely to Jesus Christ. By professing these counsels as a free choice, Carmelites become prophets in the heart of the Church, reminding all people by our dedication to Christ that God alone can set us free to be fully human and alive.

Poverty
Carmelites are invited to be poor in spirit and to follow the vision of Saint Albert’s Rule in sharing our resources. Carmelite religious live in material poverty, not claiming property as their own. Carmelite laity are not required to give up all possessions but are invited to live simply and in a spirit of poverty.

The virtues associated with poverty resonate with the contemplative core of the Carmelite charism. Poverty is closely linked to the Carmelite notion of vacare Deo; leaving space for God to act in our lives and trusting in God’s providence. Having a spirit of poverty allows us to make space for God and do away with false idols, since ‘you cannot serve both God and wealth’ (Luke 16:13). Ultimately only God, not things, will satisfy and save us. Material goods are tools given to us by God and are not bad in themselves, but possessions can come to possess us and enslave our hearts. Carmelites strive to live more simply, being not excessively concerned with material things.

Through poverty God gradually releases our hearts to love not only him, but also in solidarity those who have less than ourselves, physically and spiritually. By practising poverty we come to respect the created world of which we are stewards, and to be grateful for God’s bounty which is for all people. Embracing voluntary poverty condemns possession of the poor and the idolatry of wealth, and impels us to seek justice and peace.

 

[Cecilia]

If commentators dislike short posts longer ones are acceptable to me -- because the moderators have said this topic has less restrictions than the vocation station silo.