The Darkness And The Eternal Fires

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Pax domini brethren, sympathisers and others, may the love of Christ consume you and leave no stone unturned. :)

 

Okay so dig this. Me and a friend where talking and what came up was that in holy scripture Jesus talks twice about people being cast out into the darkness, one time being the parable about the 10 virgins and 5 running out of oil, and the other time the man at the wedding feast whom was not dressed for the wedding feast. And he talks once about the goats being separated from the sheep and being cast into the eternal fire. Perhaps there are other times he mentions the eternal fire and the darkness but these where the times we where focusing on.

 

So get this. Jesus says what he means and means what he says, he is no bafoon jester trying to trick or deceive us. He uses two different terms here, the darkness and the eternal fire. Why? Is this darkness something outside of hell, and is this darkness permanent, like once the 5 virgins have got there oil are they allowed back in the wedding feast, once the wedding guest goes and gets changed is he allowed back in the wedding feast, holy scripture leaves a bit to the imagination and discernment here. This could have both temporal ramifications and perpetual as in purgatory. Are these two verses some kind of proof of purgatory in the temporal and perpetual ? What do you all think?

 

Just thought i would throw this out there to discuss why does Our Lord use to definitively different terminology in these cases and are there any other definite word twists in the holy gospels as to there being a difference between the darkness and the fires of hell.

 

Onward christian souls.

 

God is good.

 

Jesus iz LORD.

 

 

[chrysostom]

I think fire and darkness simply refer to two different aspects of hell.  In fact, darkness seems to be more consistently hellish than fire in the realm of symbols.  The burning bush, Israel's fire/cloud, Elijah's sacrifice, and purgatory are all examples of good fire, for example.  The same cannot said of darkness.  In heaven there will be no more night because God will illuminate everything with himself.  In hell, light has departed forever.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

ok but when the sun sets the moon comes out and gives light to the people whom are travelling. And than there are the stars also. So the darkness or night is actually illuminated as far as i can tell just not as much as the day. :)

Edited January 29, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

And on a deeper level. I don't agree that the darkness is as you portray it, being the absence of light, perhaps as i said not as much as the day but still there. I could be way off target though and the darkness is absolute absence of light but than your thinking about a man made room with no access by the light or deep underground, i think on the natural level and i'm not planning on going underground, but perhaps this is the darkness Jesus talked about, i just think that was kind of beyond human comprehension at that present time, unsure if they had very deep mines. And i assume the egyptians used mirrors to illuminate the darkness in a mine i think so light was able to enter even into a mine.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[BarbTherese]

The Lord in the Bible is often associated with light.  ("I am The Light of The world" )-

John 8:12
"Again therefore, Jesus spoke to them, saying: I am the light of the world: he that followeth me, walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

 

Darkness is the absence of light and may mean the complete absence of God and Love in Hell where there is only hatred.

 

Matthew 8:12
"[11] And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven: [12] But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

 

Makes one feel uneasy!

Where fire is concerned, I wonder if it is akin to "burn with hatred". For those in Hell have completely rejected God and chosen willingly and knowingly to completely reject Him.

 

For myself, I don't think we can be completely sure and spot on beyond doubt - only that Heaven sounds like a great place to spend forever.............and hell must surely be the very worst of places.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2014 by BarbaraTherese

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Quote

Matthew 8:12
"[11] And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven: [12] But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

O.T. words to this effect. ' Wisdom will lead you on the windy paths only to show you how great the straight road truly is.' Something like that anyway and for some reason i can't post outside of this quote thingy now. But perhaps again the darkness is not permanent in this case only a temporary thing.

[BarbTherese]

My tuppence,Tab.
First, I don't think that we can know for sure in what exactly hell consists - as a conviction beyond doubt.  All we can do is speculate and I do realize that it is speculation probably you are seeking in this thread.  Still, I will include my two pennies worth:
 
 Even the CCC puts 'eternal fire' into inverted commas : "The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs" (CCC 1035). 
 
As I understand things what The Church teaches us and as the only valid interpreter of Scripture, then both Heaven and Hell are for eternity or forever.  The Church also outlines for us what would take one to hell for eternity.  This latter is only brought about by unrepented mortal sin - and The Church further explains for us in the CCC what qualities are necessary for a mortal sin to be committed - and the means by which a Catholic may express full repentance of mortal sin (Sacrament of Reconciliation) and have it forgiven totally and eternal damnation (hell) intrinsic to mortal sin thus overcome. 
 
          The Bible probably can be quoted almost endlessly where one quote seems to contradict another.  In Her Teaching Authority guided by The Holy Spirit, The Church embraces the whole context of Scripture. 

 

Second Epistle of St Peter, Chapter

Verse 20:  "Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation."
 
Douay Rheims Catholic Bible commentary on above: "No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation": This shows plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.

 

Haydock's Commentary: http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id271.html
Second Letter of St Peter, Chapter 1
Ver. 20. No prophecy of the scripture is made by private interpretation; or, as the Protestants translate it from the Greek, is of any private interpretation, i.e. is not to be expounded by any one's private judgment or private spirit. (Witham) --- The Scriptures cannot be properly expounded by private spirit or fancy, but by the same spirit wherewith they were written, which is resident in the Church.