Vatican Ii Embraced Modernism

[mortify ii]

Peace be with you Aloysius,

 

I think this interpretation you are making is overblown.  The Benedictine heremeneutic of continuity still reigns at the Vatican.  

 

I'm honestly not sure our present Holy Father shares the same enthusiasm for Benedict's heremeneutic of continuity, but speaking of our Pope Emeritus there was an interesting quote of his I found while he was still a Cardinal :

 

"The text [of the document Instruction on the Theologian's Ecclesial Vocation] also presents the various types of bonds that rise from the different degrees of magisterial teaching.  It affirms - perhaps for the first time with this clarity - that there are decisions of the magisterium that cannot be the last word on the matter as such, but are, in a substantial fixation of the problem, above all an expression of pastoral prudence, a kind of provisional disposition.  The nucleus remains valid, but the particulars, which the circumstances of the times influenced, may need further correction.

"In this regard, one may think of the declarations of Popes in the last century [19th century] about religious liberty, as well as the anti-Modernist decisions at the beginning of this century, above all, the decisions of the Biblical Commission of the time [on evolutionism].  As a cry of alarm in the face of hasty and superficial adaptations, they will remain fully justified.  A personage such as Johann Baptist Metz said, for example, that the Church's anti-Modernist decisions render the great service of preserving her from falling into the liberal-bourgeois world.  But in the details of the determinations they contain, they became obsolete after having fulfilled their pastoral mission at their proper time" (Joseph Ratzinger, Instruction on the Theologian's Ecclesial Vocation, published with the title Rinnovato dialogo fra Magistero e Teologia, in L'Osservatore Romano, June 27, 1990, p. 6).

 

I'm not sure how to understand these words, as if the Church's ruling against the Modernists was something appropriate for the time and place but now can be loosened.

 

anyway, the awkwardness of the quote comes when he calls the thing that Vatican II began to cease hostilities with the same thing as that which was condemned at Vatican I.  but then when he gives his points 1 and 2, it's clear that's a little bit of a strange way to state the point he was trying to make.  

 

 

I agree, and I'm sure we can all relate from the times we've given presentations at school or university. You have your bullet points to guide the speech but in-between you extract knowledge from your personal understanding, off the cuff speaking if you will. It seems like the Cardinal wanted to introduce what Vatican II had changed or emphasized from the pre-conciliar church, and he did this stating hostilities against Modernism were ended and that Vatican made actual "changes." He is not simply using the same word in a different or infusing it with a different meaning because he identifies it as the historical movement we all know it to have been. 

 

... but until he starts actually promoting the modernist errors**, we can't say anything other than that he gave a bit of a strangely worded speech that didn't seem internally consistent. 

 

 

Many traditionalists would argue that modernists errors are already being promoted. 

[Ed Normile]

An Historian,

What's significant is that this is probably one of the first public admissions of a rupture from a high ranking Cardinal. The partyline for the past sixty years was that there was no change in teaching between the Church of past and present after Vatican II.

 

Bingo !

 

ed

[Aloysius]

mortify, following my asterisks, it is interesting that he didn't even go to the controversial points that traditionalists feel were the errors of the modernists promoted at the council.

 

as far as Pope Francis and the hermeneutic of continuity, he most certainly is promoting it.  the death knells for any hope the Bologna school's "copernican revolution" interpretaation had that he would be their man was when he said that Archbishop Marchetto's interpretation of the Council was the absolute best.  he said to him " I once told you, dear Archbishop Marchetto, and today I wish to repeat it, that I consider you to be the best interpreter of the Second Vatican Council."

 

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/11/stop-the-presses-bad-news-for-liberals-who-have-hijacked-pope-francis/

 

moreover, he also explicitly endorses the Benedictine hermeneutic of the Council here:

"Harking closely to the same Spirit, Holy Church in this age renews and meditates on the most abundant doctrine of the Council of Trent. In fact, the “hermeneutic of renewal” which Our Predecessor Benedict XVI explained in 2005 before the Roman Curia, refers in no way less to the Council of Trent than to the Vatican Council. To be sure, this mode of interpretation places under a brighter light a beautiful characteristic of the Church which is taught by the Lord Himself: “She is a ‘subject’ which increases in time and develops, yet always remaining the same, the one subject of the journeying People of God” (Address of His Holiness Benedict XVI to the Roman Curia offering them his Christmas greetings – 22 December 2005)"

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/11/again-huge-news-pope-francis-explicitly-endorses-benedict-xvis-hermeneutic-of-continuity/

 

there can be no question that Pope Francis promotes the hermeneutic of continuity in regards to the council.  as far as Cardinal Maradiaga is concerned, one can't say for certain that he is on board with that same hermeneutic, it is possible he's sympathetic to the Bologna school's hermeneutic regarding the council.  To treat it as if it's shocking news that there are those in the higher levels of the hierarchy who hold to a hermeneutic of rupture, as if this is the very first statement from such high levels that could be interpreted that way, is to completely miss the fact that these two hermeneutics regarding the council have been in battle in Rome since before Pope Benedict called them out and named them as such in his 2005 address to the Roman Curia.  but what we can know is that Pope Francis supports the hermeneutic of continuity, and that this hermeneutic continues to reign as the dominant one in the Vatican (though, frankly, not in all episcopal sees)

 

the 8 Cardinal Commission is charged not so much with doctrinal matters, but with a reform of the curia and structures of the Church hierarchy... which any Vaticanista of any calibre knows is desperately needed... Cardinal Maradiana, from his speech in Dallas to this latest act of publicly criticizing Mueller, that if I were Pope I would've most certainly censured him for, seems to have let it go to his head.  they're just supposed to be creating proposals for the reform of the curia for Pope Francis to review, they're not vice-popes.

[oremus1]

not just modernism, but protestantism too. read ottaviani intervention and tres abhinc annos