Interesting Life Issue...thoughts? (mods Might Want To Move To Debate)

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/24/health/pregnant-brain-dead-woman-texas/index.html?htp=hp_t2

 

I'm curious as to people's thoughts on this story. I don't intend a debate, but alas I CAN see how this could go there, so mods if you wouldn't mind using your discretion and moving if necessary (like I need to tell you your jobs, right.)

[NotreDame]

I find it really annoying that they would write that whole article and not say how far along the pregnancy was or what ultrasounds/scans show regarding the baby's health and development.   It's very relevant info.  If they didn't have access to it, couldn't they just say "Neither the hospital or family have given details on..."

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

yeah, all the article said was the baby was not yet viable.

[NotreDame]

No wonder CNN has no viewers... The local TV news channel had no problem supplying the relevant info:

 

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Judge-Marlise-Munoz-to-be-removed-from-life-support-241887051.html

 

"The Muñoz family has said medical records show the fetus is "distinctly abnormal" and has water on the brain and may have a heart condition. Mrs. Muñoz is believed to be 22 weeks and five days into the pregnancy."

 

The CNN article does say she had her stroke on Nov 26th, which would have made her about 13 weeks pregnant.

 

So the question is, someone is 3 months pregnant, has a stroke, is truly brain dead.  Do you hook them up to machines too keep them alive for 5-6 months?

Edited January 25, 2014 by NotreDame

[PhuturePriest]

No wonder CNN has no viewers... The local TV news channel had no problem supplying the relevant info:

 

http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Judge-Marlise-Munoz-to-be-removed-from-life-support-241887051.html

 

"The Muñoz family has said medical records show the fetus is "distinctly abnormal" and has water on the brain and may have a heart condition. Mrs. Muñoz is believed to be 22 weeks and five days into the pregnancy."

 

The CNN article does say she had her stroke on Nov 26th, which would have made her about 13 weeks pregnant.

 

So the question is, someone is 3 months pregnant, has a stroke, is truly brain dead.  Do you hook them up to machines too keep them alive for 5-6 months?

 

This is Father Jonathan Morris' take on whether you keep that person alive or not. It's not directly related to this story, but it's still relevant to the situation:

 

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3013042762001/faiths-role-in-fight-for-brain-dead-teens-life/?playlist_id=938973798001#sp=show-clips

[Anastasia13]

Do good Catholics ever say to take someone off of life support? I got the impression after the Terri Schiavo that this almost never happened.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

Terri Schiavo wasn't on life support, she was on a feeding tube.

[cmaD2006]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/24/health/pregnant-brain-dead-woman-texas/index.html?htp=hp_t2

 

I'm curious as to people's thoughts on this story. I don't intend a debate, but alas I CAN see how this could go there, so mods if you wouldn't mind using your discretion and moving if necessary (like I need to tell you your jobs, right.)

 

:) Thanks for the vote of confidence on us mods.  We'll move it if it becomes necessary but for now it stays here until it becomes a full fledged debate.

[Basilisa Marie]

Do good Catholics ever say to take someone off of life support? I got the impression after the Terri Schiavo that this almost never happened.

 

Life support, as in machines that breathe for you, etc, are considered extraordinary care.  Thinks like food and water (nutrition and hydration) are considered ordinary care. Catholics are never required to submit to extraordinary care, so you could take someone off life support, but you couldn't stop feeding them. 

 

It looks to me like keeping the mother hooked up to machines to keep her body alive in order to get the child closer to full term would count as extraordinary care. The issue of the "abnormality" of the child shouldn't be used to determine if the child is "worth" saving only if the child would otherwise lead a perfectly healthy normal life, but rather used to decide if it would be possible to save the child if the mother was on the machines. That is, whether or not the child would die anyway. Regardless, I don't believe keeping the mother on life support for the child is a "required" action under Catholic social teaching.  

Edited January 25, 2014 by Basilisa Marie

[NotreDame]

What Balisa says make sense.  I haven't thought this through, but my initial reaction to this (putting a 3 month pregnant braindead mother on machines to try to get the baby to viability) was one of ickiness.  I feel like it's strangely "playing god" and it feels more like a science experiment.  But that's just my visceral reaction, not based any analysis.

 

FP, what does Fr J Morris have to say?  Paraphrase the video for me, por favor.

[Luigi]

I think that nowadays it frequently happens that people such as Mrs. Munoz are "saved" medically through extraordinary means, which leads to all sorts of complications. Naturally, I don't know the details of her stroke or the medical care that followed it, but it seems to me that if she is indeed brain dead, then she (and her unborn child) would have died a natural death if the medics had gotten there just a few minutes later.

 

I'm not usre that throwing all possible help at a medical emergency is always the wise thing to do.

[Cherie]

I've been following this extensively.

 

Here's an OLD article (from January 10) that contains some comments from an ethicist at the National Catholic Bioethics Center, an organization I hold in the HIGHEST regard, and which has helped countless people I know personally, including myself, regarding "sticky" moral life issues, regarding this specific case. It's been in the news for a few weeks now.

 

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ethicist-texas-end-of-life-debate-must-consider-unborn-child/

[Maggyie]

It's tough to make the case that life support in this case is not a heroic, extraordinary measure. Is it possible that her body could kick into gear once the machines are turned off? I don't think anyone in the case desires the death of the baby (I hope not anyway). They just don't want her on the machines. What a tragic situation.