Private Vows in The Laity/Spirituality

[Guest]

One more point and quick as I have to shower and get ready for my nephew and his wife's send off to the USA to work and live, establish themselves.

I trained as a counsellor pre onset of bipolar and I was trained in non-directive therapy.  This meant that you facilitated your client to make positive decision for themselves.  One needed to put aside one's own concepts of what would be positive in their problem and for their life.  One invested in the positive personal decisions of one's client (once they arrived there hopefully, facilitating in hope that arrival) and affirmed that personal decision.  Affirmation in life and in relationships is very important and not at all unusual that affirming the other can lead them on to the journey of discovering who they really are - at least insofar as we can in this life.

That training did help and facilitate me on the journey out of bipolar psychotic episodes to appreciate the other.  To be able to put aside my own selfhood, I guess might be the word - and invest fully in the other person.  To develop observation and listening skills - hearing what the other has to say and who they are or are not to themselves, their identity.  And to be fully appreciative of the other, grateful - even admiring.

I later trained as a marriage guidance counsellor - and shortly before my own marriage broke up.  And no, I could not heal either myself nor my marriage.  Ironic huh.

Oh dear, I do have to go and I just don't have the time to think and edit.  Hope it comes out ok.

All is Grace, Alleluia Amen.

22 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

@dUSt

See ........... Thread Title in Open Mic: "Seeing up an easily located blog"

I also PM'd a moderator and have a reply.  At this point seems no reason for me to think that this thread could be locked or might be locked.  Hence, insofar as Phatmass administration and moderators are concerned to my knowledge, I will remain active in this thread and the thread is not under threat of locking.  I am totally relieved that I do not have to consider setting up a blog at this point.  Whatever happens in the future is in the future's unfoldings.  I have done what I can and can rest on this subject for now, put it bed.

[Guest]

Can't see where I am logged in, although I seem to be.  Just seeing if I can post ok.

___________________

..........all ok, I can post.............

Edited July 11, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

 

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   Norsman82 - Church Militant Thread in Vocation Station titled "Single Vocation"

• "Peoples of the phorum, please attend carefully...

  I hate to burst your bubble, but unless there is a vow involved to "lock you in", single life in and of itself is NOT a vocation.

  Married people make a "vow" to each other, so marriage is permanent (until death). In the Latin rite, they cannot enter into clerical, religious, or consecrated life while married. Exceptions: permanent deacons, as well as eastern rite Catholic priesthood.

  Clergy make vows or "solemn promises", and they are priests forever, unless in special circumstances they are laicized. They cannot enter married life without laicization.

  Religious and consecrated take "vows". It is permanent unless they are somehow released from their vows.

  Singles who have not taken a vow, on the other hand, do not need to be released from any vows in order to enter marriage, clerical, religious, or consecrated life."

 

The above was posted into Vocations Forum HERE - and their are some inaccuracies.

The lay state in secular life is broken into two categories in The Church i.e. the married state and the lay celibate state.  The Church has never stated that the lay celibate state is or should be further defined as the committed and non-committed lay state.  Our baptism consecrates and commits us to the lay celibate state as, until and if a further call from God is discerned.  Our baptism is a vocation and call, a consecration, to holiness.

 

That some might suggest that the committed lay state only is a vocation is their purely quite personal opinion and concept, not what The Church states.  Not ever has The Church stated that one MUST make further vows other than the baptismal vows.

 

Those who are baptized and remain in the lay state in secular life without any sort of vow or vows other than their baptismal vows are consecrated individuals to worship God in spirit and in truth – i.e. a call and vocation to holiness - and the person is immediately consecrated to the pursuit of holiness/worship of God in spirit and in truth.  It is impossible for the baptized to ask to be freed of their baptism or baptismal vows – but they can deny  their vows by refusing deliberately to fulfill them in some way i.e. mortal sin.  The vows related to Baptism are binding and for life.  This might be similar to the Consecrated Virgin vocational state in that they cannot be released from their vow of virginity.

 

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http://consecratedvirgins.org/prepare-FAQ

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"The Consecration of a Virgin is a sign of the relationship of Christ, the Bridegroom, to the Church, the Bride. The consecrated virgin is a sign of the relationship of the Church, the Bride, to Christ, the Bridegroom. The sign is founded on the natural order, the relationship of a man and a woman in the marriage bond. Clearly, a man cannot be the sign of the Bride of Christ. Likewise, the spiritual relationship with Christ the Bridegroom is expressed in action by spiritual maternity in the Church. A man does not have the natural gifts of woman to exercise spiritual maternity.The bond of Christ with His bride, made as a definitive act on the part of the Church as stated above, cannot be "undone." That is, it cannot be dispensed. "

 

.............as baptism and the vows of baptism cannot be undone nor dispensed. CATHOLIC CATECHISM - 1280 Baptism imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual sign

 

Baptism is a consecration into the consecration of Christ.  SEE: Christifideles Laici "Vocation of The Laity In The Church & The World" - Apostolic Exhortation Pope John Paul II) It is effected by Baptism with related vows by the person. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

 Just had a look at the temperature here in Adelaide.  It is 9 degrees C - or 48 degrees F.  We usually will only drop to that level in winter and through the night - and sometimes even lower.  It is a very cold day with extremely strong icy winds, some rain, glimpses of sunshine now and then.  We are simply not used to 9degrees during the day - Melbourne might be another matter.

I have explained to my pp (and to my SD in accord with my rule of life which he approved) that i wish to be just another 'face in the pews' i.e. just an ordinary everyday Catholic to appearances without any sort of title or status in the parish.

Although at this point, I do have a weird sort of sense of moving towards something.  It might be quite minor or major - I recognise the destination when I get there and only then.  During my very ill days, sometimes I would experience the same weird awareness but back then it was always without fail something negative and I became conditioned into that awareness being related to something negative on the way.  It was always negative back then.  Nowadays that has changed and conditioning has modified so that I never know whether something negative or positive is on the way, heading towards me or towards which I am moving is perhaps better.  C'est la vie and the journey rolls on in the days and in the nights............

I do sometimes wonder if I just have too much time on my hands knowing that ol' nick loves the idle hands with abundant wiles and deception up its' sleeve....or imagination is taking flight......C'est la vie and the journey rolls on in the days and in the nights.............

Nothing is perfect in this imperfect world of ours..........and certainly not me either.............

Meanwhile...........back at the ranch............ I need to prepare for the St Vinnies meeting tonight.

[Guest]

I try to read daily The Daily Blessing, which lands into my inbox daily, along with the USCCB site for the Daily Gospel and often the related video (never more than 2mins in length) HERE.  I thought today's blessing from www.gnm.org was particularly meaningful for an interpretation of a lifestyle with or without private vows in the laity - or any other vocation :

Edited July 12, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[Guest]

Saw my SD today and went to Confession. 

One point that was raised is considering going back to school.  There is an adult campus not far from me, very short bus trip there and home - rather than 2 buses there -  and again to return home as with voluntary work.  I would much rather do voluntary work as preference but returning to school and undertaking study would be a social event for me (mixing with fellow students and teachers) as well as a focus of the mind and challenges to, exercises for, the intellect.  At my age (71yrs almost) and with A1 physical health (my doctor called it "disgustingly healthy") I am hoping to be able to spend all the rest of my days here in Bethany and with my wits about me, God Willing.   School would involve 2 days each week.  As long as voluntary work proves a 2 bus trip event with considerable walking for me, it is not an option.  But every now and then I check with the volunteer website to see if there is anything advertised that is closer to where I live

The above might be a better option I had not thought of earlier, better than taking in another load of ironing which of course would tie me down, while returning to school does not.......not tie me down inside the house anyway.  Before I actually decide I need to research about returning to school since it is now 7 years since I was last a student and much can change in 7 years.

Another decision I needed to make is whether to write about my own journey with mental illness.  I think to focus on that part of my journey as a subject of sole type of focus would be too much emotionally and also perhaps mentally in that memories now forgotten could very well return into consciousness and memories I have repressed for reasons.  However in writing into this thread and of my journey with bipolar at times, it is only a passing matter, not a sole focus type of matter. I write and then I move on.  That I can handle I know. 

I also wanted to make a decision about again discerning re a Third Order.  This has both pros and cons.  It is still in an undecided state for me.  A problem might be the constitutions of a Third Order may not fit into what is going to be a quite busy schedule if I should decide to return to study.  I am not only going to have two full days of the week at school, I need to work in the one load of ironing I do complete fortnightly around those two days.  I would need to fit in time for study and assignments.  Also, Wednesdays and Thursdays are most always already committed days for me.  Over and above that, I need time for various kinds of appointments and visiting as well as time to do necessary grocery shopping (on foot).

Father today did underscore, double underscored in fact, not to overload myself.  Perhaps the only way I am going to find out that a schedule is or is not an overload is by giving it  try.  Perhaps.

All decisions are prayerful decisions........and I really would be grateful that if you have read this that you would say a prayer for me as I do for you.

____________

lPS A big thank you for 'listening' to me.  Yeah, I know - most all don't and how do I know that some do read this thread.  I said to my sister in law last weekend "Leave me in my illusions"..........so, please - do leave me in my illusions.

Writing is the way I can work out things for myself.  Get things into some sort of rational order and logic....to me that is!  The bipolar mind can be a real handful at times and taming it completely is impossible.......to me that is!

God bless........and cheers...........

[Guest]

I am truly loathe to be almost continually posting the same links to documentation from The Vatican in support of the single or lay celibate vocation.  But as long a it keeps cropping up somewhere on Phatmass (and other sites) that there is no such thing as a vocation to lay celibacy, I will keep posting the links that there is. 

At the end of this post, you can read the latest statement by The Church on the single state in life (lay celibacy) as vocation.

Yet again, there is a thread unfolding in Vocation Station HERE that has a couple of posts stating that the single life or celibate laity in secular life is not a vocation (without supporting links to sound source material).  Without sound support quotations and links, one is only stating one's personal opinion, not what The Church has to state.  Never at any point in our lives are we without a call and vocation from God.  Insofar as one is in single life (lay celibacy) there may or may not be a further call into another state of life (i.e. Holy Orders, Consecrated Life, Marriage, Lay Celibacy).  Some lay celibate persons might receive a call and vocation to private vows or simply to remain in the lay state of life in celibacy without private vows.

It is fine to post one's personal opinion and I have no problem with that as a personal opinion.  However, I do have a problem with it if the sense of the post is that it is Church teaching.

 I will be posting a link to my post here into the thread in Vocation Station.  I am avoiding posting directly into VS because the single state as a vocation is out of bounds on VS - and also to avoid triggering debate in Vocation Station, also out of bounds in accord with the rules or guidelines for VS.  Debate here in Open Mic is not a problem insofar as I am aware.

The following is from Christifideles Laici (Vocation and Mission of The Lay Faithful) Apostolic Exhortation  HERE 

POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI
OF
HIS HOLINESS
JOHN PAUL II
ON THE VOCATION AND THE MISSION
OF THE LAY FAITHFUL
IN THE CHURCH AND IN THE WORLD

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""The secular character of the lay faithful is not therefore to be defined only in a sociological sense, but most especially in a theological sense. The term secular must be understood in light of the act of God the creator and redeemer, who has handed over the world to women and men, so that they may participate in the work of creation, free creation from the influence of sin and sanctify themselves in marriage or the celibate life, in a family, in a profession and in the various activities of society"(39)."

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH

LINK TO: Dogmatic Constitution on The Church
LUMEN GENTIUM
SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

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#39. However, this holiness of the Church is unceasingly manifested, and must be manifested, in the fruits of grace which the Spirit produces in the faithful; it is expressed in many ways in individuals, who in their walk of life, tend toward the perfection of charity, thus causing the edification of others; in a very special way this (holiness) appears in the practice of the counsels, customarily called "evangelical." This practice of the counsels, under the impulsion of the Holy Spirit, undertaken by many Christians, either privately or in a Church-approved condition or state of life, gives and must give in the world an outstanding witness and example of this same holiness.

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 6 June, 2016

https://zenit.org/articles/pope-establishes-dicastery-for-laity-family-and-life/

Pope Establishes Dicastery ‘for Laity, Family and Life’

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Excerpt:              "On Saturday, it was announced that Pope Francis has taken up a recommendation from this Council of Cardinals, and approved ad experimentum the statute of a new dicastery for the laity, family and life.

The new dicastery will merge from 1 September 2016 the existing Pontifical Council for the Laity and the Pontifical Council for the Family. On that date both dicasteries will cease their functions and will be suppressed, following the repeal of articles 131-134 and 139-141 of the apostolic constitution Pastor bonus of 28 June 1988..................

"...............The section for the lay faithful will inspire and encourage the promotion of the vocation and mission of the lay faithful in the Church and in the world, as individuals, married or unmarried, or as members of associations, movements and communities.

It will also promote studies to contribute to the doctrinal examination of themes and issues regarding the lay faithful."

 

 

[Guest]

The path of the just is made smooth?

________________

What follows are some informative and interesting comments on private vows on the site: Ask A Priest Xt3 LOCATED HERE

"Private Vows may seem like an easy option, but in fact they are among the most challenging vocations available in the Church and in the world if they are taken seriously. Strictly speaking, Canon Law makes this option available to clarify that any person is free to make promises to God, but when vows are private, this means that the Church and her related institutions do not acknowledge any obligation to offer spiritual guidance or (more specifically) material support (such as assistance obtaining employment) to support you in living out your vows, even if you make the standard promise to structure your life on the foundation of the Evangelical Counsels.

There are a lot of inherent contradictions in the option of private vows that can be confusing and very difficult to reconcile in practice - but that is part of the challenge that a person takes on when he/she choses this option.

At the same time, Private Vows offer certain advantages, for example:
1. By making private vows, you can ensure that you are entering into your vows on your own free will, purely for the love of God and not just because it is traditional ("the done thing") in a community that you would like to be a part of.
2. The vow of poverty is all the more authentic for not benefitting from any privileges (such as a recognisable social status or a position of employment in the Church or one of her institutions), and the fact that you may not expect any preferrential treatment or extra spiritual support (such as the appointment of a regular confessor or spiritual counselor to guide you in living out your vows).
3. They allow you to make it more clear to God that your promises are motivated purely out of love for Him and for the Church without expecting anything particular in return.
4. They are one of the few options available to people who want to transcend the perceived conflict between marriage and religious life. For instance, a person can decide to live a consecrated life without precluding the possibility that God may lead him/her into a marriage, just as He may call him/her to enter a monastery. Under these circumstances, a private consecration can significantly support discernment and progress into either state of life, however as a rule, a person under vows should only enter a marriage if it is conducive to the greater fulfillment of the vows, just as one should only enter a monastery if one feels that the life of the chosen community best supports one to live one's vows more authentically and productively.

For someone considering marriage, private vows can be a very romantic option because there is no clearer or more profound way to demonstrate to your future spouse that he/she is second only to God in your life. You can also make private vows to God for your future spouse (in expectation of him or her), in which case the vow of chastity becomes an incredibly romantic gift that allows you to tell your soulmate: "I loved you before I ever met you". How many people can say that in a way that allows the other person to see and feel that it is true? A vow of chastity pronounced in a private Mass in front of witnesses is one way to be able to do that.

Having said that, while this is not clarified in the Code of Canon Law, I feel there is a significant difference between standing in front ot the Blessed Sacrament (exposed or in the Tabernacle) and making a silent promise to God and professing private vows in a Mass in front of witnesses. In Monastic professions, it is customary for a chart naming the vows and the person entering into them (including the duration of validity if they are temporary) to be drawn up and deposited on the altar. This is normally the only occasion when it is permissible to deposit anything on the altar besides the bread and wine. The person approaches the altar prior to the Eucharistic portion of the Mass and declares his/her promises so that everyone present hears. The knowledge/memory that other people have heard your promises and can testify to them before God is extremely helpful at times when you may be tempted to act as though you had not made them. The deposition of the "chart" on the altar represents the person's deposition of their life on the altar and their "sacrifice" or "personal offering" is then joined to the sacrifice of the Mass and offered up to God with it (this is the consecration part of a profession). If you chose to replicate monastic traditions in your private profession, you will perceive greater benefits.

Private vows may be a good sping-board into a more public religious profession and can greatly help discernment to the priesthood or religious life as well as a more serious approach to courtship and support a more God-centered marriage. However, there are also reasons why professional religious undergo a period of formation and testing of their vocations in community before they make even just temporary vows. Private vows are actually more controversial than they seem and many publicly professed religious (i.e. religious who professed vows as a condition to adherence to a community or as a condition for ordination i.e. the appointment to a professional station in the Church) do not look favorably on people who choose this option. In that regard, I would say that Private Vows should be approached and discerned as a vocation with its own, distinct charism. They can be a precursor to a more traditional religious profession but not necessarily. In fact, I would say that monastic experience or experience in a more traditional religious profession should be a precursor to private vows. Living private vows can be very similar to a heremitical vocation - but it is all the more challenging because they are entered into without any guarantee of recognition or support of a broader religious community or diocese.

 

 

[Guest]

My journey in the lay state with private vows has been such a long journey, it is only with hindsight and looking back than I am able to give the journey those words that are more accurate( to me)  - and sometimes an increasing understanding of what was taking place back then.

My original intention was that this thread would die a natural death after my Home Mass.  That is not the way things have unfolded recent reflection confirms - as I walk daily in the unfoldings, whatever unfolds (Divine Providence) -.  To fully grasp the Doctrine of Divine Providence - I discovered "Abandonment to Divine Providence" by Jean Paul du Caussade the most all embracing explanation (available to read online: HERE)  It is a Catholic spiritual classic of much renown even still in our own day.  

 This thread does contain much research on the single state or celibate state in the Laity in secular life, which is the more common Church terminology.  This was never my original intention.

However, while The Church is very clear indeed about the vocation to the Laity (married or celibate) as a vocation indeed, we have those who contest this as individuals, since they are not in line with what The Church is saying officially.  My feeling is that we are all without exception entitled to our opinions and concepts based on something or other - and any and all opinions and concepts are based on something.  However, since private vows in the Lay state is my quite personal call and vocation from God and therefore a matter of great importance to me, I prefer to hear what The Church states always and on that foundation form my own personal concepts and opinions and that is my personal concept and opinion.........with a right to advocate same, just as all others have the same right.

I am hopeful that the research included might prove helpful to others - which can have that "pebble in the pool" effect.    I had reflected on gossip at some point in the long ago and what was, with gossip, the sinister nature of how it spread and even changed as 'it travelled'.  It also tended to stick to the victim of gossip.  I wrote a poem on gossip long ago and one line ran "good reputation taken from another, once gone is gone forever".  I also felt with reflection, that perhaps a similar 'process' might be able to be used possibly for good - or as a pebble in the pool type of effect.

My objective from the beginning of my journey discerning and then embracing the Lay state as my personal vocation with private vows has always been to understand what The Church had to state, not to lean on my own definitions and concepts.  And frankly, back in the beginning of my journey, I had no understanding whatsoever other than to embrace poverty, chastity and obedience was to walk closely in the footsteps of Jesus.  It was asked of me when I entered monastic life in my teens how I had come to recognise that.  I had no idea, I just did.   Since I knew I was not called to consecrated life, nor marriage - I had experienced both (left RL of my own accord &marriage annulled), my vocational call had to be to the Laity, initially by default.  I have also have discerned in the long ago years with Third Orders and Secular Institutes.

As my understanding developed according to The Church, I came to embrace fully the Lay state of life with Joy and Peace and humbled gratitude for where God called me and was calling me to in each day and moment.  My place in the scheme of things became the Laity and no longer by default but by embrace.  The lay state of life is generally regarded as the lowest state of life in The Church - and I became (and still am) humbled and grateful to God for it with much Peace and Joy.  A line of The Magnificat follows me i.e. "looks with favour on His lowly servant".  I find consolation not grief in being the lowest of the low in reality - in failures and imperfections, sinfulness compared to the Graces granted.  Although it is difficult to explain because there is very real grief in all my failures etc (tears in the Confessional). while on the other hand, the gift to intellect of trust and confidence in The Lord and His Mercy is overwhelming humbled consolation (equal tears in Confession) - including in the knowledge that it is there always and for all God's creatures without exception - of whom I am the lowest.  I feel right in the lowest place as much as elevated to be in the lowest place as the most lowest. The understanding of my vocation became an unfolding matter most often related to research.  I was very surprised that not one priest (other than my initial SD - priest, religious and theologian) could inform me further on private vows and as a vocation to the Laity.  My research really went ahead only once I was given a computer.  At intervals along the way, I did come across priests who could inform me in a very broad basic sort of way about a vocation to the Laity in the celibate state.

The SD and confessor who first affirmed my stumbling and hesitant question about private vows (Father was a priest religious and theologian) liked to leave me (I can now insight) with my mind ticking over - questing for understanding, rather than leaving an appointment beaming with affirmation and understanding.  Father (dec'd) had great devotion to and grasp of the mysterious working of The Holy Spirit in every life. That was obvious even back then over 40yrs ago as I began to stumble alone on my way, once he had died of cancer.

Once I came to an understanding of what The Church (including Canon Law) had to say about the Laity and private vows with a computer doing the hard work of research, I then found myself on sure ground in defining the way of life I was living in accord with what The Church had to state.  Prior to that understanding, my inclination was to define my way of life reflective more on religious and monastic life - but I knew as a restless sort of feeling that I was not on sure ground at all, something did feel 'not there' (accurate) about it  - at least where my personal call and vocation was concerned.

Where was my serious bipolar condition in all the above back then.  It was very active and seriously so in intervals or as episodes of a psychotic state of mind - as bipolar can sometimes be.  Bipolar and the wake was a source of great grief to me; nevertheless, after each episode, I would pick up the pieces of my life as best I was able and move on.......most often into another serious bipolar episode and its wake........and for over 20 years.  It is now over 10 years ago since I have been the victim of serious psychotic episodes of bipolar.

My private vow journey was affirmed for me when our Archbishop gave permission for the Home Mass to renew life private vows to the evangelical counsels.  My now SD (priest religious), who had put the question to our Archbishop, made the passing smiling comment "Well, you can't call it a snap decision, can you?"   

I have kept nothing about my past life, nor the current either, secret from those who had a right to know.

 

"5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, on your own understanding rely not; In all your ways be mindful of Him, and he will make straight your paths" Vatican Bible Translation. Proverbs Chapter 3

 

 

Here are some quotations from EWTN: "Vocations in the Pontificate of John Paul II"

Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger Archbishop of Paris

Quote   CARDINALS' SYMPOSIUM, 15-18 OCTOBER 2003: TALK 6 The body of pronouncements by John Paul II on the subject of priests, consecrated life and the vocation of the baptized — therefore including the laity — covers thousands of pages. I would like to try here to highlight their logic and their originality, to understand their "economy" in the sense of the word as used by the Fathers to describe the economy of salvation in which the Trinitarian mystery is revealed to us. Beyond their diversity, one finds in them the great challenges of the life of the Church at the end of the 20th century and a coherent, structured response that draws its strength from the mystery of Christ.   Quote Quoting Pope John Paul II from "Gift and Mystery".  Golden Jubilee of Pope John Paul's ordination to the priesthood:  " "As I look back, I see how all things are connected: today as yesterday, we find ourselves no less deeply caught up in the same mystery". This mystery is, of course, the inexhaustible gift of Christ the Redeemer. It is also the mystery of the priesthood and of vocations in their organic diversity and ecclesial unity, and this includes the baptismal vocation of the laity." Quote   Comments from Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger: Ten years after the inauguration of his Pontificate, the three Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortations began to appear. They were dedicated respectively to vocations, that is, to our subject: to the laity (Christifideles Laici) in 1988, to priests (Pastores Dabo Vobis), and to men and women religious (Vita Consecrata) in 1996. This group of three Encyclicals, followed by three Apostolic Exhortations, deploys a spiritual teaching whose coherence is amazing, even though — as biographers of the Holy Father assure us — all the stages were not systematically planned. And his steadfast aim is even more striking if one takes into account the circumstances and events that arose to hinder his development of it. In a certain way, the Pope bases the following of Christ on the commitments of the people of our time, whether they are priests, consecrated persons or lay people, by placing them in the economy of salvation: at the end of this Advent, the person discovers himself in his inalienable dignity, which is his participation in the priesthood of Christ.

 

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Still a regular sort of thread views daily average and the average seems to be steady more or less.  It seems to hover around 35 views daily.  This seems to increase marginally after I post and an expected normal type of result I would think.  Hence I feel relatively sure that there just might be some interest in the thread. 

I only crunch the numbers into Word now and then - but not too long after the last time - week or 10 days or so.

 

[Guest]

________________

I quoted previously from Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger - so I researched who he might be never having heard of him before.  Turns out he is deceased.  A biography from the NYTimes HERE

I find him a fascinating and interesting priest, archbishop and then cardinal  - relatively close it seems to me to Pope John Paul II.

 

[Guest]

My prayer request for myself today into The Prayer Intentions Forum :

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/142149-personal-intention/

[Guest]

It is a cold winter’s night here in Adelaide.  I have been walking around (thankfully able to dress myself in the late afternoon and the first time since Friday) in my winter’s dressing gown, which means I do not have to put the heaters on with day clothes underneath.  I even managed earlier to go to the shops and buy a packet of cigarettes.  And so I have been sitting outside on this winter’s night (coming up 8pm here) with a decaf and smoking a cigarette, and reflecting.  I have to admit that I am a smoker – but part time only now and then (at this point anyway) and thankfully so. How long being a part time only smoker will last, I have no idea.

A cigarette or two or more when under stress does seem to calm me down.  It seems!  Though rather reliable reports are that it increases anxiety.

 

I have been reflecting on my post into the Prayer Intentions Forum for prayers for my personal intention.  Self knowledge, we are told by our great spiritual authors, can lead to genuine humility.  Not humility to appearances or as definitions might present it (I have reflected) but real true humility, the virtue of humility.  And so, again it seems to me, to share with others what seems genuine self knowledge (in the hope that it is indeed so) can mortify pride and spiritual pride.  I am hoping.  And perhaps lead to what is real humility – humility in truth.  Although on my account, I doubt it.

 

What I know in myself is that regularly I am not where I would like to be – but rather where I do not like to be.  Reflection tells me that insofar as wherever I am is not sinful, although imperfect and decidedly so, is where I am meant to be – as much as it is absolutely imperfect for sure.  Nevertheless it is where I am meant to be or where my personal virtue though very little, ‘lands me’ in a right and proper place for my level of imperfection and even lower level of any virtue indeed.  The blow to pride and spiritual pride is in admitting to myself and then openly to others, that I do have a really imperfect disposition and am in an imperfect place.  I am totally unable………totally!............to be in that disposition which is where I would like to be, prefer to be, but am not.  Grace is certainly present for me to be in a more perfect place and that place which I desire to be.  My response however to that Grace granted is imperfect and inadequate (my response that is) - and that is why I find myself where I am.

 

My only consolation is to refind and internalize what Jesus has said

“I have come for sinners, the righteous have no need of Me’……I certainly qualify for sinner, and nothing of righteous!….

………and also Jesus said: -  “Come to Me all you who labour and are burdened”.  I try to labour for a higher perfection but am burdened by the inability to achieve it and respond to Grace as indeed I should.  I find myself in a sort of spiritual doldrums – not moving backwards, nor forwards either.

I seem to know the right words at times, but at the same time, I seem to hear my selfhood accuse me too: "ah physician........ unable to cure yourself".

 I know where my desire is, but seemingly totally unable attain it. I need to accept that in Peace and Joyfully for Jesus always knows what He is about - He does not make mistakes. Perhaps if I ever did reach that level of my desire, I would be then overcome with pride and spiritual pride more so than I labour with it now - and so far greater wisdom, all insightful, leaves me where I am in my struggle and discontent and for my own good.

  I take some consolation too in the Prayer of Thomas Merton:

Quote

“My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think that I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road though I may know nothing about it. Therefore will I trust you ...........edit........” Website for full text of Prayer of Thomas Merton

 

 

 

[Guest]

Some very welcome light relief.  A friend sent the following video via email:

Cats were considered gods in ancient Egypt - and they have never forgotten it.

Cats Rule!

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

.  Not humility to appearances or as definitions might present it

 

17 hours ago, BarbaraTherese said:

The blow to pride and spiritual pride is in admitting to myself and then openly to others, that I do have a really imperfect disposition and am in an imperfect place. 

There are two points as above I would like to qualify.  Re humility.  The temptation can be with some understanding of it's definition (i.e. humility) to try to enact it in my life.  I think there is some virtue in that in that it is a starting place and a desire, but not yet humility in truth - because I can be acting it out while realising that I am not really there yet and that might be deceptive to myself if I hide from the truth - and also others might have a false image of me because that is the image I am projecting to them.  I also tend to think that if one arrives at humility in truth one does not realise it at all - quite to the contrary in the extreme. In fact even perfection itself is something ever ahead (and a logical conclusion).  I no sooner reach some objective or resolution, if I do, then I can see another related call and objective further ahead of me.

What I tend to do at times is think I have reached an objective or resolution and it may stay stable, but not for long.  At some point, I realise I have not reached it at all as a stable matter.........backwards and forwards most often.

The other point is pride and spiritual pride.  I would be absolutely loathe for anyone to think more of me than I am.  Not only is it not true, it presents to me an impossible standard others might expect of me.  Hence by heeding and accepting elements of self knowledge and in sharing it with others.........I am also trying to avoid any unreasonable expectations of impossible standards for myself.

.........and nothing whatsoever of the altruistic in any of the above...........

_______________________

Dust seems to be settling in my bipolar type of mind under some stress.  But again, the dust settles for a while and then suddenly unexpectedly it blows up again and my mind races around on several subjects with underlying anxiety.  Ends there are aplenty on plenty subjects, with no idea how to bring them together in one simple strand.   Backwards and forwards I go.

The key word for me is "control".  At times I am caught off guard by the racing and nonsensical state of my mind - I seem to have no control.  The next key word is "seem" because I think I can bring things back into my control with some research (Googled "the bipolar mind") application and determination.........always prayerfully.  Stress always is the initiating trigger for bipolar to have a riotous (as it were) celebration of its qualities.  But I am so grateful that it is not a psychotic state to date where I am just not on the planet at all and my whole way of life and relationships are at risk.

I am spending too much time alone and inside...truth of the matter is I am thoroughly sick to death of myself and trying to bear the self inflicted nausea howsoever I can....just at the moment I need put up with it  as I can until I have some real mobility back.  I am seeing my GP next week on Monday about my lower back (she is absent this week) and after that I can relook at my 'predicament' and decisions must wait until then, until I have my GP's opinion and bipolar sleeps once more..........in hope.

I am going to try to get dressed later today and go to shops for groceries, direly needed.  Since I was able to dress in the afternoon yesterday and go to the shops for cigarettes, I am jolly sure I can do it again for groceries.  My lower back problem is definitely eased from when it first severely asserted.  I don't think it is too serious at all or it would not have eased at all - it is a warning to me not to push things too far however.  Walking is not too bad, it is bending at any degree that is problematic.  Initially, I could not get dressed, primarily to put on shoes - but yesterday I managed it.  I do have a pick-up stick (or arm extender) on the way through EBay.

My final question to myself "Why on earth am I doing this?"............the devil is making work, methinks, for these far too idle hands.  I think I just might have a cure I can purchase cheaply next Monday.  It is a $6 quite large drawing of a peacock I think it was on a canvas (approx. 3ft x 4ft)for colouring with paint, pencils or crayons.

In religious life, one can talk over these problems over with one's superior.  I am stuck, truly stuck, talking to myself...one bipolar-er raving on to another bipolar-er........oh woe is me!

________________

Edit: Had a thought after posting.  What is a type of perfection for a sinner? To understand just how sinful they are in truth -  and to realise something of what sin is.  The anti-dote is the Love and Mercy of The Lord and to realise just how much one absolutely does not in any way deserve it.  To realise something of the nature of the Love and Mercy of God as a totally free and absolutely undeserved gift for the asking and for all............amazing matter.

Going out under the pergola on a beautiful sunshine winter's day for a coffee and smoke. 

God bless!

[Guest]

 

 

Quote

 

SHORT QUOTES FROM THE SAINTS

“We must receive with respect whatever God presents to us,

and then examine the situation with its circumstances in order to do what is most expedient.”

St. Vincent de Paul

 

I had been reflecting on what St Vincent had to say above after posting it earlier.  I do not always "receive with respect whatever God presents".  My very real desire and prayer is: "If only I could!"  Rather, in adverse circumstances, I do not always do so at all.  In a minority of circumstances I might do so - or perhaps far more often, I might only desire and pray for the Grace without being able to correspond to it as I should, rather I am steeped in my misery or whatever without respecting Peacefully, even Joyfully, what God has presented to me.

What I do manage to do, reflection reveals I think, is to examine the situation embracing the adverse circumstances presented to me - and in order to effect, in common sense, what is expedient and available to me in order to deal with the problem. (St Mary of The Cross MacKillop: "Do what you can and leave the rest to God").   This is what I am trying to do in reflecting deeply on what was my mind's reaction under stress yesterday and prior and - even more apparent to me now - what is a bipolar type of mindset and reaction in operation.  That mindset seems to have passed.......seems!............and I am thinking calmly and logically without multiple subject rushing in one on top of another.  The triggering stress does remain however. 

I went for a short walk this afternoon (a few days ago I worsened my lower back condition whether temporary or not I do not know as yet/see my GP this Monday 25th August) and maybe forcing myself to walk has really helped to clear the bipolar mindset.  Possible positive info for the future.

I see my psychiatrist on Tuesday, 2ndAugust, and I will be checking out with her my experiences or mindset over the last couple of days i.e. are my reflections on the experience accurate or inaccurate, or maybe needs some adjusting in places? This is where the brief of my psychiatrist and the different brief of my spiritual director come into play.  My SD already knows the struggles I have, often unsuccessful, with accepting quite Peacefully and with equanimity (Joy would be astounding!) those quite adverse circumstances that might come along.  Over and above that, I know from the underlying theology of St Therese's Little Way to be calmly accepting of all faults and imperfections...I can't even do that.  Truly, in all the madness and confusion of past psychotic episodes, I think I was more on the ball than now.  If I take a step further along the lines of the theology of St Therese, I need to strive to accept where I just seem unable to overcome any and all faults and imperfections with serenity ............ with absolute trust and confidence in The Love and Mercy of God, His Grace, and my failure to feel it or apply it in all circumstances.  I just do not seem to think straight under some stressors. ............or is that simply a rationalisation, a denial of responsibility.  That is the question for my psychiatrist along with "Am I self-absorbed and 'contemplating only my navel?"......and getting nowhere fast.

All is Grace (St Therese of Lisieux).  If I think carefully about that short statement, it is absolutely amazing in it's full embrace and meaning.   After all, in the Doctrine of Divine Providence, even our faults and failings and yes, our sins too, are permitted by God because God has a final and good and positive end purpose.  I mean, even if that end purpose might be a bit of purgatory/purification here on earth because of the suffering one might go through because of them.  And to me in God's Economy, He acts on behalf of one person and at once, He is most mysteriously acting on behalf of all.   Amazing!

Bye for now...........Cheers!