Private Vows in The Laity/Spirituality

[BarbTherese]

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/141610-st-katherine-drexels-sisters-building-complex-to-be-sold/?do=findComment&comment=2764490

 

Quote

 

  "The Sisters of St Joseph are vowed members of the Congregation. Today some people are seeking a closer relationship with the sisters to collaborate in God’s mission. These people have taken private vows and are affiliated to the congregation. These vows of evangelical chastity, poverty and obedience are taken according to an agreed Rule of Life with a Memorandum of Affiliation between the person and the Congregation. This affiliation is open to individual men and women who live independently of the congregation but are closely affiliated."

 

The above is not a third order (while there might be similarities).  Insofar as I know, it is an affiliation in which the person writes their own Rule of Life, to which the religious order agrees (possibly like my SD and I before he approved my rule of life - he made amendments and suggestions to which I agreed, altering the rule accordingly).  In that rule, I also spelt out how I would live out poverty, chastity and obedience.

The affiliated member of Sisters of St Joseph (of The Sacred Heart) is given a Memorandum of Affiliation and makes private vows to the evangelical counsels with a rule of life and will be closely affiliated with the Sisters.

I have a very close friend who is a Religious of St Joseph of St Mary MacKillop - I never felt a call to the above, while I found it very interesting indeed.

 

Edited May 6, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[WhoamI]

Thank you so much for this thread. I hope it doesn't seem strange, but I have read through the entire thread over the last week, and it has resonated with me and brought me a great deal of comfort (and more than a few tears) during game that time. Without going into too great detail at the moment, I am currently on a leave absence from my religious community, in an attempt to help me have the time needed to deal with mental illness. Thank you again, and please keep writing. I will jump in occasionally when I feel moved to do so.

[BarbTherese]

29 minutes ago, WhoamI said:

Thank you so much for this thread. I hope it doesn't seem strange, but I have read through the entire thread over the last week, and it has resonated with me and brought me a great deal of comfort (and more than a few tears) during game that time. Without going into too great detail at the moment, I am currently on a leave absence from my religious community, in an attempt to help me have the time needed to deal with mental illness. Thank you again, and please keep writing. I will jump in occasionally when I feel moved to do so.

Thank you very much indeed, WAI!  I am very happy that you have found consolation in the thread including perhaps about mental illness I hope....(as I said, The Holy Spirit is no snob and can use constructively the most unlikely of channels for His Works).......if religious life is what you desire and feel is God's Will for you, then I will hope with all my heart and pray likewise that you will deal very successfully with your mental health issues and return to your religious community and very soon.  All things are indeed possible to God, huh!  Very often, not at all unusual, that a passage through severe suffering such as MI can indeed be, is The Lord's means of the happily unimaginable.  The unexpected totally.  God bless you richly, grant you His Consolations and your heart's desires.  When I was in a psyche ward and quite often in the past, I used to tell fellow patients that Jesus never suffered a mental illness, He was completely sane and normal.  So we have the mental illness for Him, since He was like us in ALL THINGS except sin

Yeah, I will keep on writing as long as any sort of inspiration and 'inspiration' is forthcoming and dUSt, our beloved leader and administrator, does not close this thread down - and his right to do so........and dUSt, if you are around mate, thanks heaps for not closing it down.  I type very quickly and quite accurately keeping up with my thoughts and typing the only thing that can keep up with them.  Having a bipolar mind, the thoughts can come fast and furious on one subject no sooner expressed than a new train of thought starts up and races along ........and so on it goes.  I don't always write so many posts as I have today however.

A Carmelite prioress I know said "I think the internet was created just for you" - she was joking of course all the way and a private joke shared by us.  I used to say in my days lost in psychosis "I can run the world from my kitchen" (before I had a computer).  My son gave me this computer ............and I have shifted the computer from the kitchen to the guest room.  It is stunning to me - an amazing matter that we can indeed reach the whole dang world 'from our kitchen'.........while we cannot run it...........as yet anyway :).  And here I sit tapping away - but the washing machine has told me it's time to hang the washing out...............d*&%it!  My little dog and cat need to be fed etc. etc.  Duties call!

God bless you richly WMI...........and thank you very much indeed for your words of encouragement at what I know for sure is a very difficult time indeed.  I cannot reward you, my hands always empty - but I know Someone who will reward you for your kindness and thoughtfulness, encouragement............my very warm regards............Barb

I once wrote a poem called "Who Am I" but can't find it.  After I have done what duty calls me to do, I think I can recall some lines in that poem.

Hey @WhoamI - before I go - a big welcome to Phatmass.  Jump in the water is fine and no sharks to worry about.  Now and then we can argue like cats and dogs sometimes...........but hey, we are a family and what family is free of arguments.

And no, your post was not at all strange.  No way.  It was quite beautiful, thank you.  As it says in the intro somewhere  to Open Mic Forum ............say what you like and don't be afraid to do so (paraphrasing). 

Oh and we do have a private messaging system if you want or need it.  It can take a while sometimes to find one's way around a place and get to know it.

Catcha later and around the place on Phatmass at times I hope.....welcome again.....Barb

Edited May 6, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[WhoamI]

Thank you so much for your very warm welcome to Phatmass. I was a member many years ago, before I entered the convent, and some of the same faces (names?) are still around. As regards my vocation, only God knows at this point...I am taking it, or trying to take it, one day at a time.  The Lord knows what He is doing, and I embrace His will with my whole heart - even if my emotions do not always seem to agree. 

Again,thank you, and I will likely be making use of the Private Messenging at some time in the future. 

God bless! 

[BarbTherese]

1 hour ago, WhoamI said:

Thank you so much for your very warm welcome to Phatmass. I was a member many years ago, before I entered the convent, and some of the same faces (names?) are still around. As regards my vocation, only God knows at this point...I am taking it, or trying to take it, one day at a time.  The Lord knows what He is doing, and I embrace His will with my whole heart - even if my emotions do not always seem to agree. 

Again,thank you, and I will likely be making use of the Private Messenging at some time in the future. 

God bless! 

"As regards my vocation, only God knows at this point...I am taking it, or trying to take it, one day at a time.  The Lord knows what He is doing, and I embrace His will with my whole heart - even if my emotions do not always seem to agree"

Hi again WAI...........Spot on re the above.  I know how difficult one day at a time can be - in my own journey, needing to take just one day at a time, what I was learning for the future (I did not realise at the time) was just how to live daily just for today in my future and to entrust with confidence any tomorrow to the Loving Providence of God.  Practice does indeed make perfect or on the road to, rather.

I read somewhere that the reasons things go wrong is because there is something we need to learn for our journey we have not as yet learned.   Hence when things go wrong in my journey, I try to ask myself "What am I learning for my future through this?  What is the lesson in the situation?"  The answer of course is not always immediate - but it will arrive at some point.

St Augustine : "Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence."  

It is a real killer isn't it when one really does trust The Lord in very difficult circumstances and desiring and ready with all one's heart to embrace His Will no matter content - and resolved with firmness to do so - but the emotions keep trying to pull one in some opposing direction.  To know mentally in undoubting Faith that The Lord does indeed know what He is about.........and ye olde emotions (and God has created us emotive creatures) keep trying to scream that He does not.  Emotions are important as they are intrinsic to our humanity created by God. Emotions can tell us in part who we are - but they do not tell us the whole of who we are.  We are also creatures gifted with rational thought processes to mention just one other gift we have as human beings.  Both astounding gifts are supported and guided by God's Love and His Grace, His Holy Spirit.  Emotions to me are like windmills - they will shift in the slightest breeze.  Faith however brings about a decision, a choice in one's will, and it is a constant as long as one does decide and choose Faith and with confident trust in The Lord.    All is Grace (St Therese of Lisieux).

I am hoping you just might find some old pals on Phatmass - and it is good to know that you are familiar with the site, with Phatmass and recognise some members - some old faces as it were.  The private messaging system is really good for private conversations.

It occurred to me last night that the website "Leonie's Longing" http://www.leonieslonging.org/ just might be helpful to you.  I don't know much about it myself other than it apparently has been very supportive and helpful to those who have left religious life and returned to the world.  I have presumed that that meant left religious life completely.  I don't know their position re a person who has a leave of absence for some reason and hopes to return to the life.  If you don't know the site, a wander around it might be helpful.  I am hoping it might prove to be of help to you.  In the left hand column of the site is a link to "Contact Us" and one can write a message, which they state will be kept in strictest confidence.

My daily prayer will be that The Lord will grant you your hearts desire and many consolations and insights in this difficult journey and time...........warm regards.......Barb

Edited May 6, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

@WhoamI

The other things that has just occurred to me and very important I think especially if one is struggling mentally, is do you have friends or family, or even both, where you can sit down relaxed over a cuppa - face to face in person - and just let it all out without needing to hold this or that back for some reason?  People who love and care for you - ideally who do not have all the answers, nor even sure they have the right questions...........loving and accepting people.

With mental issues, it is a very good move too to seek therapy of some kind - and a therapist that one feels comfortable with, can let it all out, and whom one can trust.

The other important point is spiritual director.  If you don't have one and it needs to be someone you feel very comfortable with and whom you trust, there are two options I can think of for finding a spiritual director:

• Ring houses of monastic priests and brothers, nuns (sometimes they do undertake spiritual direction or might be willing to do so)  Thankfully today, very thankfully, most often the perspective & attitude in religious houses re those who leave religious life for good or on a leave of absence is not at all what it once was.
• Phone your diocesan offices and ask how to find a spiritual director.

Don't be afraid to sound people out before making your own mental commitment to them on some level, or deciding best not to do so.

Finally, if none of the above works out for you, be absolutely confident and trustful that The Lord has reasons (as I know you do know) and strive to be content to journey with your hand simply in His...............He can be trusted absolutely in this.  I went 20 years without being able to find a spiritual director - no friends nor family either but I never gave up on praying for a  SD and also people I could sit down with over a cuppa and just let it all out without reserve.  It happened eventually.

Edited May 6, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[WhoamI]

Again, thank you So much for your response. I am very blessed to have a lot of supports in place - a really amazing support group with a number of people who like to go out for coffee and chat outside of group times, friends from University and even high school who have stuck around, as well as my home parish here.  I have a wonderful spiritual director from my time in the convent who is very willing to stay in contact. I am working on the therapy part of it- there is a bit of a wait, but there is drop in as well.

I'very checked out the leonie's longing website as well, and have been in contact with them. They are very willing to assist, and I find that I relate to much of what is on their website and blog. 

Thank you for your reflection on emotion. I think one of the blessings of this struggle with mental illness has been a far greater knowledge about and acceptance of my own emotions, and their role. Before, I would often  h just not allow myself to feel anything,especially the more distressing emotions.I have come to a far better place with regard to that now - being able , must of the time, to allow myself to feel, and to consciously acknowledge my emotions, especially in prayer. I once told my spiritual director that I feel far more able to "pray with my whole self" whereas before, prayer was largely an intellectual exercise.

Today was a good day. I went out and enjoyed the sunshine, and made the effort to talk to people that I met down town. It was beautiful, and made md think of one of the thoughts that Catherine Doherty has when beginning her work - the chit-chat apostolic; being present to people, listening to them...

God bless your day!

Please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes.  I am typing on my phone, and I am still getting the hang of it. Also, auto correct some timesort takes over, and I don't catch it.  

[BarbTherese]

Thank you very much for your reply, WAI.  Wherever The Lord is leading you, you are certainly fully doing your part and therefore you will get there for sure!

Really good news that you have a good support system in place including spiritual direction with therapy in the pipeline. A drop-in where mental health issues are concerned is a good move to my mind too. It is my personal experience that I learnt much from fellow sufferers and I found a burden lifted off me (for one) to realise that others had really bad days too when all was confusing and nothing was making any sense at all.  I discovered I did not have blue skin and red eyes as it were, I discovered that I was just a human being like all the rest and it was ok to have bad days, lousy days, miserable days.

Great that Leonie's Longing website has been willing to offer you support and that you have been able to relate to articles on their website.  Excellent news indeed.  Thank you for sharing this info - it is very handy to know that Leonie's Longing does not confine itself to those leaving religious life for good.  Important info to have on hand indeed.  Thank you.  It is also important to post such information since someone might be reading only who needs it.  Thanks again, WAI!

3 hours ago, WhoamI said:

Thank you for your reflection on emotion. I think one of the blessings of this struggle with mental illness has been a far greater knowledge about and acceptance of my own emotions, and their role. Before, I would often  h just not allow myself to feel anything,especially the more distressing emotions.I have come to a far better place with regard to that now - being able , must of the time, to allow myself to feel, and to consciously acknowledge my emotions, especially in prayer. I once told my spiritual director that I feel far more able to "pray with my whole self" whereas before, prayer was largely an intellectual exercise.

I can relate so much to the above.  When I first fell ill, I would not acknowledge my emotions at all.  My psychiatrist was almost always saying to me "Stop rationalising".  I think too that sometimes especially in the past there was a sort of spirituality in Catholic cultural consciousness that our more negative types of emotions (part of a normal life) should not be acknowledged and were a sort of anathema as it were - sometimes perhaps formation in religious life can travel this path (although I think more so probably in the past than now).

God has created us feeling creatures and we only have to read and meditation on the life of Jesus to realise that He was a fully emoting human being.  We should ideally treasure the fact that we are emoting creatures since our emotions are God's gift and necessary for survival. Feelings have no morality.  It is what one does with one's feelings that introduces morality and right or wrong.  As I said before, feelings tells us in part who we are but are not the whole of us.

Suppressing an emotion means that I choose not to express an emotion for some reason - but I acknowledge that feeling and own it as my own.  I choose. 

3 hours ago, WhoamI said:

Today was a good day. I went out and enjoyed the sunshine, and made the effort to talk to people that I met down town. It was beautiful, and made md think of one of the thoughts that Catherine Doherty has when beginning her work - the chit-chat apostolic; being present to people, listening to them...

How wonderful for a good day and may there be many more!  And oh yes, the chit-chat apostolate - just being "present to people, listening to them"  This apostolate (and thank you for the expression from Catherine Doherty) cannot be undermined or downgraded out in the world especially although I know it is important in religious life too.  Not at all unusual for such an apostolate to lead on to other things of importance.  Like everything, there has to be a beginning to all things human ....... and there has to be an ending too, while the beginning is not necessarily the ending.......the journey.

"All things pass, God alone suffices"

Wow, WAI, I think you are doing great things indeed.  I hope that you will start up perhaps your own blog or thread....or even post into this thread.  I think you already have and will have important things to share.   I am always conscious that all threads and posts have readers that we know nothing at all about and probably wont........and our potential to be channels of The Holy Spirit to them through the written word and we will never know it this side of Heaven.   I think contributing on Phatmass can be an apostolate too.

No spelling or grammar problems that I came across, WAI.  Ahhh learning to type on the phone huh, oh aint it a delight and aint it a joy!

 

Meant to include this, but forgot.  It is such a consolation to be able to share with Jesus fully who we are without holding anything back.  After all, He knows it all anyway, but longs to share with us His Peace and Freedom and knows that being able to share all things with Him no matter what it is will open our door to His Gifts of Peace and of Freedom to mention two.  Well I recall the days when I would say to Him only what I thought He wanted to hear, what I should be saying............forgetting completely that He knew me better than I knew myself.  Not much use holding anything back at all.  As I go about my day , in the main I relate to Jesus as friend and pal, co-conspirator even........when in The Presence of The Blessed Eucharist, in the main I am conscious of The Divine, The Sacred and The Holy.

Edited May 8, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

It just struck me that the thing about "the chit chat apostolate" is that it is very common in our world that people are very lonely and do not have one person that is present to them and interested in their story, really interested and fully present to them in every way.  When someone is so very much alone and lonely, a warm transaction with a fellow human being can open up to them that they are indeed a valuable human being........a person and identity and part of a community of fellow human beings.  It strikes me that very much indeed can come about from "the chit chat apostolate".  Thank you again.

[BarbTherese]

Can't find a copy of my poem "Who Am I?" and the only line that comes to memory doesn't make sense out of the context which I cannot recall.  The poem must be on my previous computer and while my son has retained the C Drive, it has not been transferred on to this computer.

[BarbTherese]

On ‎6‎/‎05‎/‎2016‎ ‎8‎:‎09‎:‎25‎, BarbaraTherese said:

Sponsa's article on the Aleteia blog: http://aleteia.org/2016/05/04/is-the-single-life-a-vocation/

The comments section (at the conclusion of the above article) has made some interesting reading and food for thought and reflection.

 

 

[BarbTherese]

Adding to my previous post, I would like to add that The Church has never stated, not ever, that it is necessary for a baptised person to make a further commitment of self to anything outside of their baptism.  It is very important however to understand our baptism and the vows we do make and renew every Easter. 

Some certainly are called to priesthood or consecrated life - but not all.  Perhaps some might be called to some kind of private vow or vows, commitment............but not all.  Some might be called to The Sacrament of Marriage and probably these comprise the bulk of lay people..........but not all are called to marriage.

It is not absolutely necessary that one commits oneself to anything other than our baptism (and we renew our vows every Easter as individuals in community in unity with the Universal Church) by which we commit ourselves to what The Church teaches and the pursuit of holiness and the perfection of Charity, each in our own way according to the circumstances of our lives.   These circumstances of our lives do not come about by some accident of fate - they are ordained by God as outlined in The Doctrine of God's Direct or Permissive Will (Divine Providence).  There is no such thing as an accident of fate or similar type expressions.  The Divine Providence of God embraces all circumstances in our life great and small to the most minute of matters, even to the number of hairs on our head: (Matthew Chapter 10)    "[29] Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father. [30] But the very hairs of your head are all numbered."

I don't know how much time I am going to have over the next couple of days anyway to go back into my research and post anything that I think is relevant over and above what I have posted below.......but I will try to do so when I can............if I should feel prayefully it is necessary over and above what appears below. 

 

Quote

 

Christifideles Laici - Vocation and MIssion of The Lay Faithful in The Church and the World HERE-

Quote:  "The "world" thus becomes the place and the means for the lay faithful to fulfill their Christian vocation, because the world itself is destined to glorify God the Father in Christ. The Council is able then to indicate the proper and special sense of the divine vocation which is directed to the lay faithful. They are not called to abandon the position that they have in the world. Baptism does not take them from the world at all, as the apostle Paul points out: "So, brethren, in whatever state each was called, there let him remain with God" (1 Cor 7:24). On the contrary, he entrusts a vocation to them that properly concerns their situation in the world. The lay faithful, in fact, "are called by God so that they, led by the spirit of the Gospel, might contribute to the sanctification of the world, as from within like leaven, by fulfilling their own particular duties. Thus, especially in this way of life, resplendent in faith, hope and charity they manifest Christ to others"(37).Thus for the lay faithful, to be present and active in the world is not only an anthropological and sociological reality, but in a specific way, a theological and ecclesiological reality as well. In fact, in their situation in the world God manifests his plan and communicates to them their particular vocation of "seeking the Kingdom of God by engaging in temporal affairs and by ordering them according to the plan of God"(38)."

 

(all formatting in the quotation is mine)

In discerning one's vocation and call, what ideally it is all about is discerning God's Will for oneself........and ideally again and hopefully any spiritual direction will be intent on facilitating that the person does discern what is God's Will for their life.

It is not a question of encouraging or discouraging to one vocational state or another at all.  It is a question of discerning God's Will.

Edited May 9, 2016 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Had to add this before I forgot:

Lumen Gentium

(Dogmatic Constitution on The Church)

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

" In this manner, they offer all men the example of unwearying and generous love; in this way they build up the brotherhood of charity; in so doing, they stand as the witnesses and cooperators in the fruitfulness of Holy Mother Church; by such lives, they are a sign and a participation in that very love, with which Christ loved His Bride and for which He delivered Himself up for her.(11*) A like example, but one given in a different way, is that offered by widows and single people , who are able to make great contributions toward holiness and apostolic endeavor in the Church"

[WhoamI]

Thank you for all the thoughts about the vocation of the laity, which comes from baptism as articulated by the Church. 

I think we (and by we I am meaning mostly myself - I have no way of being able to know anyone else's thoughts) often forget about the incredible and fundamental fact of our baptism , and its importance in our lives as Christians. It seems odd that we often forget about the very thing that makes us Christians, but perhaps we (I) are so familiar with it, that we tend to forget how incredibly amesome it really is.  

I have been reflecting a bit on my relationship with our Lord outside of the convent. About a week before I began my leave of absence, I was at Mass, praying after Communion, and complaining to Him that this (leaving the convent, even temporarily) was the biggest sacrifice He could ask of me at the time. I almost felt as if He asked me,"But what is changing in OUR relationship?" I realized that the answer was, and still is, absolutely nothing. I have responded to His call to give myself entirely to Him, and have not revoked that, and even if, at the end of these two years,  i cannot return to my community,  i am still entirely His. This time away is Him stripping away all the external supports that can be so helpful, but which can actually, at times, interfere with the actual relationship with Christ. I know, upon reflection, that I have, at times, let them become an end in themselves, rather than a MEANS to the end, which is the love of God, and of our neighbour in Him.

This is not meant in anyway to denigrate the observances of religious communities, but rather it is meant as a reflection on my own thoughts and feelings. There is a reason that these things are called essential elements, but at the moment, the Lord is asking something different of me. May He be praised!

[BarbTherese]

Hi WAI - Just ducking in to acknowledge your post, which seems spot on to me.  Will reply in full when time permits - I leave for interstate for my son's wedding on 23rd May Monday - and this coming week in my diary overflows which is a jolly nuisance - but all I could do was sit under my pergola outside and laugh because I am not in control, He IS!!!

When I decided to leave monastic life in my forties, I knew I had no vocation to monastic or religious life............but I had no idea to what I was called as conviction -  and a most confusing time and I didn't say then "You are in control, not me" I was very upset indeed and let Him know it - and I am sure He had a good laugh.  I used to say "I hope you DO have big shoulders, because HERE I COME AGAIN!" And you are spot on - nothing can alter one's relationship with Jesus, nothing whatsoever except mortal sin and then we have the recourse always of The Sacrament of Reconciliation and our relationship with Him and all is fully restored in every way.  He not only fully forgives, he forgets completely and absolutely.  What a God have we!!!!

Catcha at some later point......say a prayer for me please, I am in a right royal mess here........Barb

Quick edit:  Even in mortal sin, He continues to totally love one in every way......it is we or I rather who have pulled away from Him.  The problem is all on my side as is the decision to confess in the S. of Reconciliation..............but He has provided all the Graces necessary to do so.  All is Grace.