cruciatacara Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 It would be nice to see the topic addressed instead of psychoanalyzing me. If you want to start a special thread about me and the disorders you perceive that I have, I would be flattered, would enjoy the attention, and might even participate. But what about the ACTUAL POINT I'm making here? The fact is that this was recently addressed to the choir leaders by the pastor. He wanted a uniformity of posture and wanted us all to be standing at that time, but to make a "profound bow" when he genuflects. Most of us were already doing this, but a few needed to be brought inline. Because of the unfortunate layout of our church and some space limitations, doing otherwise causes a distraction to the congregation and unnecessary commotion. And yes, the choir leader is concerned as are some other members of the choir, but I don't think our leader has the nerve to really confront him unless he feels some pressure from some of the rest of us, which I think could happen. (And it's no coincidence that he has caused trouble in another choir and was booted out of that one regarding a completely different issue that had nothing to do with liturgical postures). And yet you don't answer the question - WHY does this matter so much to you? If even your choir leader hasn't been driven yet to the point of saying anything (and it IS his job, not yours), then why not just let it go? If he chooses to discuss it with you all or to address it as a problem, then by all means support him, but until then, how is it that you can't seem to let go of this issue? Is it really so important to you that you have to spend page after page defending your point of view and trying to convince others that you aren't obsessed about it? Methinks psychology does have something to do with the actual point of this whole thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) And yet you don't answer the question - WHY does this matter so much to you? If even your choir leader hasn't been driven yet to the point of saying anything (and it IS his job, not yours), then why not just let it go? If he chooses to discuss it with you all or to address it as a problem, then by all means support him, but until then, how is it that you can't seem to let go of this issue? Is it really so important to you that you have to spend page after page defending your point of view and trying to convince others that you aren't obsessed about it? Methinks psychology does have something to do with the actual point of this whole thread. Stop baiting him and making judgements, if you have followed the whole thread it has been a debate and that is what he is doing, this is the debate table cruciatacara, there is no accusation table on phatmass. :reaper: no pun intended just how i see it and i'm no mod, do as you will. I fear Mob mentality has crept into this thread MODS. Edited February 1, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruciatacara Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Stop baiting him and making judgements, if you have followed the whole thread it has been a debate and that is what he is doing, this is the debate table cruciatacara, there is no accusation table on phatmass. :reaper: no pun intended just how i see it and i'm no mod, do as you will. I fear Mob mentality has crept into this thread MODS. I'm sorry you see evil where none is intended Mr TAB. I am sincerely concerned as to why this should be so important to him when it is not his job to judge or correct others in the choir (or in church for that matter). I can see being slightly irritated by the behavior of others in any situation where one feels that error is being done, but honestly, this reaction seem a bit extreme to me. That is why I questioned it. It thought perhaps I would understand it better if it were explained. I am also not really sure why you should feel a need to criticize my post when you are not a mod, and I have seen some very unusual posts from you from time to time, that have probably caused irritation in others, and yet for the most part, you are left in peace to state your opinions. But if the real mods want to remove what I have posted, then they are certainly welcome to do so. In the debate table, I thought that we were ALL entitled to voice our opinions, even when those do not agree with the OP or others but I am certainly not obsessed about this thread (or any other) and am happy to withdraw if my posts have seemed offensive - not at your suggestion - but at the suggestion of a mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry you see evil where none is intended Mr TAB. I am sincerely concerned as to why this should be so important to him when it is not his job to judge or correct others in the choir (or in church for that matter). Did i say evil did i ? Edited February 1, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Also Pliny is judging that the people are kneeling or standing at whatever point when the bishop has asked otherwise and looking for advice on whether he should interceed for them and alert them to the bishops intentions, that is what the intentions of the O.P was not what you have all turned it into. He was not judging there character or intentions until you all starting putting pressure on him with your accusations of his character and intentions and that puts utmost pressure on people and they slip up, i think it's called flame baiting. You will all die by the sword you live by, eventually, i don't care how many uni degrees your family has, it isn't fair 10 packing on one, sounds more like wolf pack than sheep flock to me, not phatmass in general but that is what this thread has tended towards. Jesus iz LORD. Jesus " where the body is the vultures will gather." he is injured over this incident at his parish have some charity and mercy. :) Edited February 1, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruciatacara Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Also Pliny is judging that the people are kneeling or standing at whatever point when the bishop has asked otherwise and looking for advice on whether he should interceed for them and alert them to the bishops intentions, that is what the intentions of the O.P was not what you have all turned it into. He was not judging there character or intentions until you all starting putting pressure on him with your accusations of his character and intentions and that puts utmost pressure on people and they slip up, i think it's called flame baiting. You will all die by the sword you live by, eventually, i don't care how many uni degrees your family has, it isn't fair 10 packing on one, sounds more like wolf pack than sheep flock to me, not phatmass in general but that is what this thread has tended towards. Jesus iz LORD. Jesus " where the body is the vultures will gather." he is injured over this incident at his parish have some charity and mercy. :) Since this is the Debate Table, it is only to be expected that there will be a lot of conflicting opinions. Pliny has been given the opportunity to close this thread several times, so if he feels under attack, then this is an option I guess. Since the topic has gone on for quite awhile now, it is only natural that his motives may come into question in an effort to understand just why this is so important to him. To expect people to agree simply to make him feel better isn't really the purpose of Debate Table. He has a point of view - by all means let him stand up for it and continue to assert it - but he will be asked questions about it. Is it really necessary for you to defend him? He seems to be able to hold his own here. I mean, you can certainly support his point of view with your own opinions, but you are the one who seems to be turning the thread into some kind of a 'us vs them' type of mentality. Debate is just debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Of course by your logic he should be able to kneel ANY TIME during the Mass and be the only kneeling singer. If he announces the entrance hymn he could stay, "Please stand, but I'm gonna kneel." Really this is ridiculous. You allow for no order or uniformity--not even for those who have a special and visible rolee in the liturgy. it is not an immemorial custom to kneel at the entrance hymn or at the our father, sure I'd ask a member of the choir to stand during those times... because it's an immemorial (or at the very least centennial) custom to stand at those times. custom is the interpreter of the law, not the other way around. that's canon 27. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Since this is the Debate Table, it is only to be expected that there will be a lot of conflicting opinions. Pliny has been given the opportunity to close this thread several times, so if he feels under attack, then this is an option I guess. Since the topic has gone on for quite awhile now, it is only natural that his motives may come into question in an effort to understand just why this is so important to him. To expect people to agree simply to make him feel better isn't really the purpose of Debate Table. He has a point of view - by all means let him stand up for it and continue to assert it - but he will be asked questions about it. Is it really necessary for you to defend him? He seems to be able to hold his own here. I mean, you can certainly support his point of view with your own opinions, but you are the one who seems to be turning the thread into some kind of a 'us vs them' type of mentality. Debate is just debate. Yes oh mighty one sitting on the throne of the judicial court. I know this is a debate thread, and i know not even 1 has to agree with pliny and i know you can ask him questions, than ask him questions don't bait the answer you assume he is getting at out of him, that is also judging and making happen what you expect to happen forcing someone into a corner to react how you expect them to react. Just ask him questions than and don't question his motives. Treat others as you would treat Jesus, do you question GOD or ask him questions ? Edited February 2, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) <edit>This is just my observance CRU and i may be wrong, and i doubt this is your intentions but this is how it is coming across young blood, and you weren't the only one doing this as far as i'm concerned. No pun intended young, sorry if i have offended you or done to you what i have said shouldn't be done, baiting as such to get the reaction i expect, if i have please forgive me and i am truly sorry but also i am but a man and fallible as are we all as is pliny and we need to be a bit more understanding and shepard people across the river and not drive them like an enraged cattle drover running out of time, gods time young. :) Edited February 2, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruciatacara Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Treat others as you would treat Jesus, do you question GOD or ask him questions ? Are you saying that Pliny is God? And that because of this he should never be questioned? But if it comes to that, I do ask Jesus questions all the time. Even His disciples asked Him questions. Thomas doubted Him but Jesus helped Thomas to understand what he needed to know. I really don't get your logic here. This is my last response to you because you just don't make any sense to me and besides - we know where we both stand on this issue. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Read carefully love. I encourage asking questions, but not questioning. I just missed a comma. And anyhow this was not a personal attack on you CRU, this was an about the sheep flock acting like wolves and attacking injured wild life. I'm not saying this is the worlds oppinion or the churches opinion on what just happened in this thread, but my own. And a heated debate is an argument not a debate, and saint paul states " bretheren should not argue with each other." words to that effect anyway, but i guess it's a should and a suggested thing and not an order just like the bishops advice on the standing, why is it one has to be ordered by a bishop, we can't be ordered because where not in a religious order, anyhow. Suggested thing are the polite way of saying please don't do this or please do this, your choice people, you have the freedom to choose. Edited February 2, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 U wot m8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) U wot m8? Flout envy and replace it with trust. Don't be so paranoid. Leave the sporting on the baseball pitch, leave the war on the battle field and leave the movies in the movie theatre. I will respect the youth as if they where adults, there not 5 years old, nor will i treat them as such, to a degree to encourage rapid growth in all things holy. St paul " now we are men we must think as men do." Young men of God rise up! Jesus iz LORD! Edited February 2, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) You haven't proven to me your not a free mason still going to church thingy yet. :reaper: And i'm not a brit i'm an australian. Edited February 2, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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